Well the problematic wagons are "pre-owned" and the couplings are not in a good state, plus the old wheels might be an issue. Speaking of couplings, does anyone know the magic trick if getting those XXXX springs in.

Quote from: Old Crow on February 21, 2018, 03:38:03 PM
Well the problematic wagons are "pre-owned" and the couplings are not in a good state, plus the old wheels might be an issue. Speaking of couplings, does anyone know the magic trick if getting those XXXX springs in.

If they're Peco as you said in the opening post, they shouldn't have and don't need springs!   

Ah! Well all of these have springs where the couplings  are ok - or had springs where they are missing. I have new Farish couplings and I have the springs but getting the springs in is XXX!!!
It may well be that the former owner replaced the existing couplings with others that don't quite fit as the horizontal bar on the couplings is prone to pull out of its slot. I might have to make something unless there is a source of the original couplings??

Quote from: Old Crow on February 21, 2018, 04:11:07 PM
I might have to make something unless there is a source of the original couplings??

The Technical department at Peco are an extremely helpful bunch so it may pay you to give them a call. It's not as if the 'Elsie' couplings are out of production.

Before we go any further, I think we need photos of these recalcitrant apparently mongrel wagons so we can be sure of what we are dealing with, otherwise we are assuming and could very easily give wrong advice... 

Actually the Peco wagons aren't so bad. Among the rake I've got some old repainted Farish box vans and it's these that are iffy. Spent the evening "pushing things around" and these Farish ones are wobbly and can actually jump over points. Tested the gauge and it's very tight -almost under gauge moulded plastic wheels. Well I've got some metal ones which I think you can adjust so I'll try those. I appreciate the advice guys; I'm sure you experienced modellers have perfect track. I'm getting there; gentle curves and entries into points. I note even a slight gap at rail joints is detectable in "N".
Current annoyance is poorly performing bogies on old Farish coaches. Maybe it's age and wear on the mount but I reckon the wheels can contact the coach body on hard curves and some of the wheel sets don't turn well. I feel a small washer to distance the bogie and a screw fixing in place of that fragile pin may work.

Quote from: PLD on February 21, 2018, 03:43:42 PM
If they're Peco as you said in the opening post, they shouldn't have and don't need springs!   

Very very early Peco wagons had sprung couplings (and larger buffers).

Cheers,
Alan

Quote from: Old Crow on February 21, 2018, 10:48:33 PM
I'm sure you experienced modellers have perfect track.

Personally, I wouldn't make such a claim, but I do have (too many) years of experience in putting Peco track together and know what to look for. I have to say that, straight from the box, some Peco points can be very 'lumpy' unless securely fastened down. A trick that always helps me is to put my bridge camera on 'video' setting and take a short film of any portion of track causing an issue. This allows me to play it back/pause it to see what the problem is. The camera can be quite cruel. Running a finger slowly over all track joins also helps discover 'bumps'.

Good tracklaying is something you learn with experience, it's worth being patient and doing it slowly and carefully. It also pays to have the right tools. When I started in N (when dinosaurs roamed) I had a trainset mentality and expected to clip all the track together on the carpet like I did when I was little, N gauge is a bit more finicky. 

One thing I haven't learned is resisting a 'bargain' so I've ended up allsorts of rollingstock in various states of disrepair (some people do strange things to their property) although I have learned a lot by trying to fix them up.

I think you and I must be of the same mould because I concur with everything in your post! 

Thanks guys. I am a newbie (though old) to "N" and I'm learning. Certainly, as Dr Al keeps saying, track issues are fundamental. I'm re-working my original plans to remove any sharp curves and give better lead ins to points and finding out what flexi will and won't do. I'm getting there and things are running pretty well now. And yes, there are clunky points, even electrofrog which I have to say are a revelation. And yeah - second hand stuff can be a real lottery. I appreciate the advice guys.

Quote from: PLD on February 20, 2018, 08:33:48 PM
With one or two rare exceptions, the ideal weight for a wagon is what it left the factory with...

One of those exceptions being the Farish Presflos.  They have a very small weight in them due to the shape of the bottom of the wagon. Those are so light that they'll happilly jump off at the slightest opportunity, when being propelled.

Quote
The majority of derailment and other issues especially on point work are NOT weight related but an issue of the wheel-rail interface... Oddly the moulded nylon Peco wheelsets are right on the lower limit of Back-to-Back clearance to be compatible with Peco Points... Personally I would be changing the wheels not the weight.

I've never found a need to change the weight of a Peco wagon on replacement wheels (usually either Farish or Parkside)

It's worth pointing out that Parkside or Farish wheels are heavier than the Delrin Peco wheels, so by changing the wheels you are also adding weight. You're right though that Peco wagons tend to run far better on non-Peco wheels: I almost always replace Peco wheels with Parkside, these days.