The computer was working fine until a major update imposed by Microsoft yesterday. Now 3 hours after removing about 20 updates files the systems are now working as before the updates, outlook will now download emails from the host server and I can open files instantly without having to keep stopping enterprise configurations for every file.

Now I'm thinking about a simple cheap computer for surfing and online activities and using the current laptop for the major offline work so that Microsoft are unable to mess up the systems.

Dodger

To add something that I forgot yesterday failure of something to operate correctly occurs every time Microsoft do a major update.

I've also found an option in settings that allows you to revert to the previous version so they must be aware that they cause problems.

Dodger

Quote from: red_death on January 30, 2018, 11:19:29 PM
If an update is changing boot time from 1 to 3.5 mins then something is going very wrong and it is unlikely to be MS's fault I fear. Doesn't MS only bundle patches now so anything not been patched is risky. Certainly no bloat ware from MS

If the only thing that changes is a MS update, then it must be the issue. No bloatware? You're kidding, right?

I still receive security patches. They don't seem to effect performance.

I must say that generally, over many years, I have had few problems with Windows Update causing problems. This goes as far back as Windows 95 up to the last but one Windows 10 major update. As posted elswhere I noted a marked decrease in start up time for some office applications when opening a file from a short cut and also delays in opening the first email after starting Outlook. this appears to be a common problem and there have been various suggested fixes, none of which work for me. Hoping that a patch, sometime soon, will sort this out.
Even with this problem I don't think its a good idea to inhibit Microsoft updates or fix on one particular set of updates because of missing out patches for security, new features and compatibility issues.

I was particularly upset with a update a year or two ago which required a change of video card.

Since then I've had to rollback the first Creators edition update, as it stopped all my emails. This time the new creators edition update has worked perfectly so they've obviously sorted that problem out.

Quote from: emjaybee on January 31, 2018, 08:16:19 AM

Quote from: red_death on January 30, 2018, 11:19:29 PM
If an update is changing boot time from 1 to 3.5 mins then something is going very wrong and it is unlikely to be MS's fault I fear. Doesn't MS only bundle patches now so anything not been patched is risky. Certainly no bloat ware from MS

If the only thing that changes is a MS update, then it must be the issue. No bloatware? You're kidding, right?

I still receive security patches. They don't seem to effect performance.

Not kidding at all - if you install security patches then what else is there to install? What are you classing as bloatwsre?

If you've already removed "bloat ware" or got a problem with drivers then the fact that an update caused problems is not that surprising!

Quote from: red_death on January 31, 2018, 09:04:03 AM

Quote from: emjaybee on January 31, 2018, 08:16:19 AM

Quote from: red_death on January 30, 2018, 11:19:29 PM
If an update is changing boot time from 1 to 3.5 mins then something is going very wrong and it is unlikely to be MS's fault I fear. Doesn't MS only bundle patches now so anything not been patched is risky. Certainly no bloat ware from MS

If the only thing that changes is a MS update, then it must be the issue. No bloatware? You're kidding, right?

I still receive security patches. They don't seem to effect performance.

Not kidding at all - if you install security patches then what else is there to install? What are you classing as bloatwsre?

If you've already removed "bloat ware" or got a problem with drivers then the fact that an update caused problems is not that surprising!

If the laptop works perfectly before an update, then slows down considerably after an update....

...what's the cause?

Back out the update...

...works perfectly again.

I had the latest security patches...

...no problem.

My laptop is set to receive security patches only, and unless they come up with a damn good reason, that's how it'll stay.

I'll leave it there as I think we're straying from the OP, and I keep getting told off for that.

The security patches aren't the problem for me, they are essential and I want to be able to download and install them quickly.
My issue is with the 'feature' updates. They take a long time to load, install and configure and have added such useless, to me, software as Edge, 'exciting Edge updates', Cortana updates and this time a fully featured 3D gaming upgrade which will allow me to have enhanced gaming experience.
All of which are totally useless to me and the first two require disabling, not because I'm paranoid but because I choose no to use them but every time I use the alternative of my choice they remind me to try them instead until they are disabled.

You'd think that by now Microsoft's progammers would be able to get things right first time and not need to keep fixing things that should have been right first time. Possibly also be able to make it sufficiently "fireproof" that  security updates should be less frequent.

Quote from: Dorsetmike on January 31, 2018, 10:40:28 AM
You'd think that by now Microsoft's progammers would be able to get things right first time and not need to keep fixing things that should have been right first time. Possibly also be able to make it sufficiently "fireproof" that  security updates should be less frequent.

Quote from: Dorsetmike on January 31, 2018, 10:40:28 AM
You'd think that by now Microsoft's progammers would be able to get things right first time and not need to keep fixing things that should have been right first time. Possibly also be able to make it sufficiently "fireproof" that  security updates should be less frequent.

Windows modifications:- Too much complexity, too many unforseen effects, too many developers involved, too much time and cost pressure - Almost no chance of an update without something going wrong somewhere.
The humble punters, and device developers are doing the Quality Control and feeding back faults to the Software developers. A bit like us and some of the N gauge loco manufacturers!! 

I think this is just a symptom of where we are now with PCs / technology. In the past, your OS would have been relatively static, not receiving many patches and again the software you ran on it would be the same. This was because sending out updates and patches was quite difficult, people had to download and apply them or looking back a few more years, you maybe had to have media sent to you. As you didn't make or receive many changes the performance of your machine wouldn't have appeared to degrade badly over time.

Now though, most machines are always connected to the Web and it's become very easy for software suppliers to push out updates to you. So you end up with your PC and the software it runs being subject to allot of changes. These mostly provide the great many of us with new features or protection against the latest security issues, but we have to understand what's going on when this happens. A patch to a security loophole, won't improve the performance of your machine, as the code has now had to be made more complex to provide additional levels of protection. Also new updates, generally won't be performance fixes, they will provide a richer feature set and again, you're looking at more complex code which will take longer to run on your box.

As we patch and upgrade our PCs, we are demanding that their fixed resources Memory, CPU and Disk cope with more and more complex software. This is where the tipping point comes, one update or patch just pushes your machines resources over the metaphorical cliff, rather than your app or OS running happily as it did yesterday, now everything takes much longer. Probably the most critical factor is that in the last 10 or so years, people are not being driven to replace their machines as the OS and software is generally still compatible with them. The useful life of a PC is and will probably remain at a maximum of 5 years. Phones for example are probably something like 2 years.

It would be interesting to get an idea of the age of the PCs that people are having performance issues with. As an example I have a laptop on my desk at work, which I still use, but understandably at a vintage age of 12 years and running Win7 Ultimate, it's kind of not so much 'What do you want to do today?' more 'OK if I don't crash in the meantime, what do you want to do at some point this week?'.

Cheers, Mark.

PS Yes I've been working in IT for many years developing software, but mines all tight high performance stuff not bloatware, honest 

My c5 year old laptop had been getting a bit slow. I put an SSD, and it's revolutionised it. Crazy fast now. 4 seconds to boot up.

I agree with your analogy though Mark, yes boot times appearing to go from 30 seconds to 4 minutes overnight because of an update is obviously attributable to the update, but may not necessarily be the update that's the blame, more your system, or how the update interacts with some quirky piece of software or utility you use.

Not wishing to make an example of you DorsetMike, but I recall you posting a screenshot of your computer previously when seeking help, and you had all manner of slightly unusual plug ins, add-ons and utilities. It's perhaps no surprise that eventually some software update won't play nicely with all these things, but I'd not blame the software update. I still agree with Red_Death -
Microsoft aren't filling your computer with bloatware.

Quote from: emjaybee on January 31, 2018, 09:29:38 AM

Quote from: red_death on January 31, 2018, 09:04:03 AM

Quote from: emjaybee on January 31, 2018, 08:16:19 AM

Quote from: red_death on January 30, 2018, 11:19:29 PM
If an update is changing boot time from 1 to 3.5 mins then something is going very wrong and it is unlikely to be MS's fault I fear. Doesn't MS only bundle patches now so anything not been patched is risky. Certainly no bloat ware from MS

If the only thing that changes is a MS update, then it must be the issue. No bloatware? You're kidding, right?

I still receive security patches. They don't seem to effect performance.

Not kidding at all - if you install security patches then what else is there to install? What are you classing as bloatwsre?

If you've already removed "bloat ware" or got a problem with drivers then the fact that an update caused problems is not that surprising!

If the laptop works perfectly before an update, then slows down considerably after an update....

...what's the cause?

Back out the update...

...works perfectly again.

I had the latest security patches...

...no problem.

My laptop is set to receive security patches only, and unless they come up with a damn good reason, that's how it'll stay.

I'll leave it there as I think we're straying from the OP, and I keep getting told off for that.

I agree with entirely as this is usually the problem I get.

Dodger

At work The four machines I currently  use,
1, is Dos,!!! (due to be retired shortly) not allowed on the network
1, is Win 7
2, are win 10,  and they are 2013 aged machines (not surprisingly DELL)

at home,
The main PC has bits that are now 25 years old, although the motherboard, 9 years old and the SDD was it's christmas present this year. it's windows 10, Office  Pro for which I get legal copies from MS as part of a company deal for $10

Laptop 2 years old same software as above.
Two android tablets..