Quote from: njee20 on January 11, 2018, 08:24:23 AM
Re: unrealistic expectations and wanting everything for nothing. I'm not really seeing that. We've got a few people saying they have to be more selective with purchases, but that seems to be a statement of fact and begrudging acceptance rather than a moan. It's common sense too, who wouldn't be more selective with purchases when there's a bigger financial outlay. I think the people moaning about the moaners outnumber the moaners by a significant margin!

I would completely agree - this utterly nails it njee20 

Cheers,
Alan

It's getting late here in Oz, please let's stick to the OP.

We have come a long way from when I started in N gauge in the mid 70s when one new loco-or even one new livery-or a new kit-was a major news item..............

I agree with 37058/post#153.

Though I am in the fortunate position of already owning most of what I would like, and have little space on my layout for more...........

Martyn

Quote from: Bealman on January 11, 2018, 09:07:17 AM
It's getting late here in Oz, please let's stick to the OP.

We're talking about new releases, the costs thereof and strategies around selecting the items, isn't that the topic? It's an interesting discussion, please let's not stifle it by saying we have to discuss 2018 releases and nothing else. It'll wain and die a death naturally. It's been really refreshing to let a thread wander a little bit, it's come back to the original topic, there are some great contributions, and it's been the busiest thread on here in months with 160 replies in 4 days. Isn't that all positive?

I doubt anybody wants anything for nothing. The worry is the price rises will push folk away from the hobby. That's bad news all round if so. I cant afford most new releases from Graham Farish but can afford track, controllers scenic details and books and Mags which support the scene as a whole. Second hand seems to be high as I commented elsewhere recently and that is driven by the new RRP to a point and how much is produced. I am now seen on occasion damaged or non running models being advertised at prices way higher than I would pay. Also with second hand you don't get the same rights as a new retailed product but if the market bears it then so be it. Prices will always increase that's a given but let's hope the hobby doesn't become the reserve of the wealthy only.

I guess though one assumes people have a collection already. There's no inherent need to purchase new models, as you observe  the second hand values have increased, so if someone wants a new model they can always move on older stock. Like you, I wince at some second hand prices, but there are still some good deals out there. I buy a lot of stuff second hand, particularly rolling stock, and have yet to get 'burned'.

You could argue that people won't be attracted to the hobby if prices are high, but I'm not sure I buy that, there's no rose-tinted glasses and people saying "20 years ago this was much cheaper" if you've no baseline to compare to. At the end of the day the cost of entry is comparatively high, in time if not financial terms, but there's little on going cost - things don't really wear out. You could, theoretically, spend £x on stock and a layout and need to spend nothing more for 20 years.

That said, 00 does feel more accessible to me for 'new blood', with Railroad models, and TTS sound (at the higher end), but I think most people probably come to model railways through 00 anyway, and we all know it's a far bigger market.

I think like most things perceptions of value are very personal judgements.

My view is that things have peaks and troughs - when I first got into N gauge as a teenager all models were expensive. Things became much cheaper or at least felt cheaper when I started working. When Bachman moved production to China there were better quality and low prices - perhaps a golden age but it was never going to be sustainable if for no other reason than prices were kept 'artificially' low by cheaper production costs in China. Not unreasonably Chinese workers want to be paid a decent wage.

So do manufacturers chase the next low wage country for 10-20 years or accept at a certain point that higher prices are going to be necessary if we want to pay workers a fair wage.

I've tried to avoid politics but stuck to economics.

Cheers M

Railway modelling is a tricky field to get cheaper. Runs are small and the parts are smaller which means automation is often not economical. I think that as long as we continue with the current manufacturing methods, there is limited scope for models getting cheaper. 3D printing may change all that but the quality is not there yet.

Quote from: red_death on January 11, 2018, 02:15:47 PM
Things became much cheaper or at least felt cheaper when I started working

That's hit the nail on the head for me, Mike. When I was working (all those 4½ years ago) I had a lot of disposable income and my pre orders at one stage reached nearly £1500. Having taking the (relatively) risky decision to retire at 60 with enough savings and a small private pension behind me to carry me until the 'official' pension kicked in, I soon realised such expenditure could not continue.
Luckily a combination of increasing prices and 'rationalisation' of releases pegged everything back such that I buy maybe one loco a year (although RevolutioN has been quite expensive for me!! )
TBH, I am glad Farish are continuing to release anything, as opposed to nothing being announced by Dapol apart from 00 and DJM relying entirely on one release to fund the next.

I swear the more I earn the less money I have

Quote from: njee20 on January 11, 2018, 03:17:37 PM
I swear the more I earn the less money I have

Oh, you must be self employed like me then.

The old Graham Farish website with product listings appears to have been taken down. The last update was on 1 January when I viewed it on Sunday. So now we can only see the new website with the new product listing. Guess they are putting up the new prices for the previously announced stuff.

http://www.bachmann.co.uk/farish.php

Afternoon all.

So it looks like a quiet year of 'wants for me with just the GW Toad on my radar. On the plus funds can be saved for a pair of sound 8Fs.

Cheers

Ollie

Quote from: Lindi on January 11, 2018, 06:25:00 PM
Hattons have updated there prices for the Farish Mk2f coaches. The RRP is £42.95 (£44.95 for the DBSO)

Yes, but have they got a release date yet?

(once I'd got up off the floor)

Certainly in the "eye watering" category! Would potentially have had some to respray as Caledonian Sleeper coaches, but not at that price!