We trades people are being encouraged by Hornby to place all our orders ASAP, or risk losing out on products as they are released, the general feeeling is that they are trying  to work to a 'Supply to order' and if you don't order it you don't get it, in a bid to reduce over stocking and over production.

I can sort of see the sense in this, but I am wondering what will happen if orders for a particular model do not reach break even or return a  profit, will they still produce this model, or as I suspect will they simply delay it until they have enough orders.

The other thing is, if it succeeds, will other manufacturers turn to it as well, and will this mean yeat again that we the end customer loses out, I cannot it see it being good for the hobby as a whole, it can only mean inflated prices.

Why would other manufacturers jump on popular models? You already know what the popular ones are, but it would be madness, given lead times, for a brand to try and get in on a manufacturer's 'turf'.

Quote from: njee20 on January 10, 2018, 09:03:41 PM
Why would other manufacturers jump on popular models? You already know what the popular ones are, but it would be madness, given lead times, for a brand to try and get in on a manufacturer's 'turf'.

I can't see where you have got that interpretation from - the original post says nothing about manufacturers encroaching on each others' turf.

In response to the original post, doesn't this already happen to an extent? Wasn't one of the reasons Dapol temporarily shelved the Class 50 that they hadn't had a large volume of orders for them?

Quote from: Lindi on January 10, 2018, 10:28:22 PM
Sounds like a vey good business model to me. i.e. not manufacturing stock that doesn't sell. If a company like Hornby can't turn in a profit and cease trading then it is the railway modellers and business that suffer

Where it falls down is when something would actually sell well, but people just don't order it before it's available.

Quote from: davidinyork on January 10, 2018, 09:08:13 PM

Quote from: njee20 on January 10, 2018, 09:03:41 PM
Why would other manufacturers jump on popular models? You already know what the popular ones are, but it would be madness, given lead times, for a brand to try and get in on a manufacturer's 'turf'.

I can't see where you have got that interpretation from - the original post says nothing about manufacturers encroaching on each others' turf.

In response to the original post, doesn't this already happen to an extent? Wasn't one of the reasons Dapol temporarily shelved the Class 50 that they hadn't had a large volume of orders for them?

Ahhhh, just re-read it. I read "if it works will other manufacturers turn to it as well", I was thinking small - if a model proved popular would other copy, not would the business model be copied. I'll go sit in the corner

Not sure I have an issue with it really.

I believe pre-ordering from both customers and model retailers is common in America and I can see it becoming more common in the UK too.

Some of Hornby's releases last year were sold out on pre-order.

there ?? do you mean THEIR ?

spell check and predictive text are a pain, I'll leave you to guess where, I get p****d off every evening with the news readers with their " the team and me " ITS AND I !!

learn to speak proper like what I did 

I guess the risk is that if customers don't pre-order, then retailers won't, so the apparent demand for a model risks being understated, and then a manufacturer may choose to cancel it put it in abeyance.

I personally have never pre-ordered any models that I can think of, not quite sure why. I'd do it if it became necessary, but have some curious aversion to it. Yet I've jumped into crowdfunding campaigns with both feet! 

Quote from: class37025 on January 11, 2018, 10:19:59 AM
I get p****d off every evening with the news readers with their " the team and me " ITS AND I !!

learn to speak proper like what I did 

Not necessarily. To extend your example, if it were "goodnight from the team and me" me is correct. It would be "the team and I wish you goodnight". Take the other person out of the sentence. You wouldn't say "goodnight from I".

apologies, obviously my public school education was wasted on me 

I don't really like to pre-order models, it would be much nicer to wait until they were in the shops and reviews in magazines and forums had been read but some models are so appealing you know they are going to be popular.

I pre-ordered a SE&CR loco (00) last year as the livery was so nice and I had travelled  behind it on the Bluebell Railway. It appealed to a lot of other people too and quickly sold out on pre-order.

I think Farish's Wainwright might be very popular too.

There is a difference between Hornby and Bachmann, Hornby are in financial trouble whereas Bachmann are not,  hence Hornby pushing the retailers for pre-orders, you can't really blame them.

Hornby's demand forecasting has been poor on some models producing shortages of high demand items and large amounts of unsold stock for other items. As a manufacturer any information which allows you to match supply and demand more accurately has to be a benefit, although you need the retail trade to be on board with the plan. Whilst pre-ordering through a UK retailer should guarantee supply the recent example of the Farish sound-fitted locomotives has left some pre-orders unfulfilled. The UK retailer pre-order system falls down when the order is placed after production has been completed, and therefore has no impact on production numbers.

It is normal for certain N scale items in mainland Europe to be made to order with retailers signalling the final order date in store and on their websites. Minitrix and Fleischmann have certainly done this with special sets.

Strangely enough, despite the obvious impact of Oxford Diecast's CEO on the Hornby future ordering systems, OD have not always been good at forecasting the demand in their road vehicles and aircraft sectors, where pre-ordering of routine releases accounts for a small proportion of sales. 

It's good to see a near 50/50 split in the attitude to this, personally as a retailer I cannot get my customers to pre-order, one or two do, but not many will commit to spending X100's of pounds in six months time, or in some cases even longer, especially where Hornby are concerned as they are not known for delivering on time.

I'm also not sure this is part of Lyndon Davies' new role, I have the feeling a decision like this would have been made before he took over.

Quote from: Graham Walters on January 11, 2018, 03:18:17 PM
personally as a retailer I cannot get my customers to pre-order, one or two do, but not many will commit to spending X100's of pounds in six months time, or in some cases even longer, especially where Hornby are concerned as they are not known for delivering on time.

I fail to see the problem in pre-ordering as no money is committed to by the customer until the item is despatched to them. How long has my pre-order for the DJM class 23 been on? Look what happened to the damned Dapol WC/BoB farce? Incredibly frustrating but, at the end of the day, no money has been lost by me (although in a fit of pique I went and bought the new Farish Merchant Navy )

Quote from: Graham Walters on January 11, 2018, 03:18:17 PM
It's good to see a near 50/50 split in the attitude to this, personally as a retailer I cannot get my customers to pre-order,

I'm also not sure this is part of Lyndon Davies' new role, I have the feeling a decision like this would have been made before he took over.

On pre-orders: I don't know whether it will become as regular as abroad, though part of that is down to manufacturers and retailers "educating" (how patronising but I can't think of a better word) the market.  Customers want cheap prices well one of the ways to help keep prices lower is to produce to pre-orders because you don't have to factor in costs for holding stock, warehousing and sending out orders in dribs and drabs.

On Hornby's decision: I can't believe a new CEO would allow such a decision to go out on his watch if he didn't support it.

Cheers, Mike