I am very new to this modelling game but I am getting very frustrated by manufacturers' and retailers' online presence.  It seems to me to be a closed shop, either you are "in the know" or we don't want you to be "in the know". 

For example, on the Graham Farrish website I was looking at (or trying to look at) Castle Class 5044 Earl of Dunraven.  Is that a shirtbutton on the tender?  No idea, can't get a close enough picture.  So then I tried Hattons and Rails of Sheffield, still no better.  If I can see what I'm buying I'm interested, if not then I'm not.  But because I can't see it there is no sale.

I work twelve hour night shifts, so I am very unlikely to pop in to my local model shop as much as I'd like to.  In a world where Amazon can show me 50 pictures of a book I am going to digitally buy, surely the manufacturers and more importantly the retailers can up their game.

Rant over,

Graham.

Never had a problem myself.  
Just click on a thumbnail and get a nice big pic.
For the Earl I get this:
http://www.bachmann.co.uk/image_box.php?image=images1/farish/372-030.jpg&cat_no=372-030&info=0&width=800&height=255
Don't know about what screen size you have but on my 22" it looks like a "shirt button".

Quote from: NinOz on July 23, 2017, 03:25:50 AM
Never had a problem myself.  
Just click on a thumbnail and get a nice big pic.
For the Earl I get this:
http://www.bachmann.co.uk/image_box.php?image=images1/farish/372-030.jpg&cat_no=372-030&info=0&width=800&height=255
Don't know about what screen size you have but on my 22" it looks like a "shirt button".

My exact point, is that a shirtbutton logo on the tender?  I think not, but I want to see every little bit in  detail before I hand over my hard earned!

Looks like the shirt button motif on my phone, and can't really see what else it would be?

The Rails of Sheffield website  gives several views if the Earl and it is definitely
the shirtbutton logo. Hope this helps.

Quote from: BoxTunnel on July 23, 2017, 03:28:31 AM

Quote from: NinOz on July 23, 2017, 03:25:50 AM
Never had a problem myself.  
Just click on a thumbnail and get a nice big pic.
For the Earl I get this:
http://www.bachmann.co.uk/image_box.php?image=images1/farish/372-030.jpg&cat_no=372-030&info=0&width=800&height=255
Don't know about what screen size you have but on my 22" it looks like a "shirt button".

My exact point, is that a shirtbutton logo on the tender?  I think not, but I want to see every little bit in  detail before I hand over my hard earned!

Maybe it would be helpful to you if you were to print yourself off a few insignias from the web to help you distinguish what is what. I can't work out whether you are a newbie just learning about the different types of decoration on locos. So if you print out a shirt button, BR late crest, BR early crest etc. then that might help you work out what's what.

Maybe has already done that, as in avatar? 

Quote from: Bealman on July 23, 2017, 08:38:07 AM
Maybe has already done that, as in avatar? 

Well there you go then a GWR logo. If BoxTunnel has done the others he's well prepared!!

A bit of prior knowledge helps here too. There are (basically) only three GWR logos for locos:

GREAT WESTERN   (sometimes with a crest between the two words) - 1923 to 1934 (or 1935?)

Shirtbutton roundel ( 1934/5 to about 1942)

G W R (1942 to nationalisation).

So if it isn't GREAT WESTERN or G W R and it looks small and round it must be shirtbutton.

I imagine there are similar things for other railways.

Neil

Or.............page your oracle i.e. this forum and ask if anyone could post a picture of what you are looking for. There is a very high chance that someone amongst the membership has the item you seek.
You can be specific about what part you want to see in detail.

Quote from: NeilWhite on July 23, 2017, 09:24:03 AM
A bit of prior knowledge helps here too. There are (basically) only three GWR logos for locos:

GREAT WESTERN   (sometimes with a crest between the two words) - 1923 to 1934 (or 1935?)

Shirtbutton roundel ( 1934/5 to about 1942)

G W R (1942 to nationalisation).

So if it isn't GREAT WESTERN or G W R and it looks small and round it must be shirtbutton.

I imagine there are similar things for other railways.

Neil

Though earlier logos could run for some years later especially during the war until that loco got a repaint. The only way to know is photographic evidence of that loco.

I visit a few sites also being new to the trains side and have to agree though it's partly due to internet shopping where you can't handle and look at all aspects of what you may want to buy.

Some give a larger picture for a click, some a zoom- good if the angle is right. Others don't. At least one offers a larger picture but clicking brings up the same size pic in a new window. I've had to turn to an overseas supplier because of that.

It isn't easy getting into a new subject and model railway is particularly difficult. It just takes time to learn the jargon I suppose. 

Thank you all for your excellent advice, and I apologise if I seemed a bit shouty, that was not my intention.

I was ranting a bit because the Post Office had already made me angry - see my Cricklade Station thread.

I think my problem is that being a complete noob I basically have no idea what I'm looking for.  I understand that GWR had three separate "brands" to use a modern term, but how those spread to coaches and goods vehicles (does one call a cattle van a vehicle?) is currently beyond me.

For example, Locomotives would have had either "Great (crest) Western", the Shirtbutton, or "G  W  R", and yet most wagons I see only have "G  W" on them.  I have spent hours and hours googling pictures and trying to match them up to text about that picture to see if it's what I'm after and if it will fit what I'm trying to do.  And as hard as I look, I can not be sure that that is a Shirtbutton on the tender of the Earl of Dunraven.  It probably is, but before I hand over a significant proportion of my weekly wage I need to be absolutely certain.

I have a passion for guitars (I currently own five) and despite my proclamation on an earlier thread that I own enough guitars, I feel the need for a Fender Stratocaster.  My point is that I can go to the Fender website and see these guitars from numerous angles, zoom in, zoom out, rotate and zoom in again, listen to sound clips, etc etc.

Now, I have read many threads on these forums and people seriously know what they are talking about and many are very specific about the era they are modelling.  Surely any manufacturer worth their salt would provide multiple pictures of every model they sell, especially when they are often asking well over £100 for a locomotive, so that they could match these items to a prospective buyer.  Surely any retailer wanting to get these items off their shelves would do the same.  As I said in my OP, if I'm not sure what I am buying, there is simply no sale and this can not be good for anyone.

Perhaps this is only a problem for people like me that work long night shifts and are therefore unable to call my local model shops or visit in person, but I feel the manufacturers and retailers are missing a trick here.  I am 47 and do pretty much all of my non-food shopping online, but the generation below me do EVERYTHING on line.

Hopefully this is less of a rant and more of an explanation about my OP!

Thank you all again for some excellent advice,

Graham.

Not sure you'll find a clearer pic than this off the retailers...........
(move your mouse over the main image or select the 3rd pic from the left below the main image)

https://railsofsheffield.com/castle-class-earl-of-dunraven-5044-gwr-lined-green-free-uk-post-372-030-graham-farish-JJJA22434.aspx

Quote from: newportnobby on July 25, 2017, 01:10:30 PM
Not sure you'll find a clearer pic than this off the retailers...........
(move your mouse over the main image or select the 3rd pic from the left below the main image)

https://railsofsheffield.com/castle-class-earl-of-dunraven-5044-gwr-lined-green-free-uk-post-372-030-graham-farish-JJJA22434.aspx

Those show it perfectly, or this one:
https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/372-030_1530472_Qty1_2.jpg

Crystal clear - it's a GWR shirtbutton crest.

Cheers,
Alan