'Discussions' about whether Linux, Windows. Macs, PC,s Unix or whatever is better come up from time to time and often end in slanging matches.

'Mines better than yours'!!!

Ultimately people use whatever they feel comfortable with and quite often they are most comfortable with whatever they started out with. That, IMHO, is because you learn to use one device/OS and any other device is 'different' which is quite often translated as 'worse'.
At the end of the day does it all really matter at all? Whatever device/OS we use we all manage to communicate effectively on this Forum!!!

Quote from: austinbob on July 18, 2017, 09:22:09 AM
Ultimately people use whatever they feel comfortable with and quite often they are most comfortable with whatever they started out with. That, IMHO, is because you learn to use one device/OS and any other device is 'different' which is quite often translated as 'worse'.
At the end of the day does it all really matter at all? Whatever device/OS we use we all manage to communicate effectively on this Forum!!!

Hi

I think the above sums it up very well.

I have always used a PC but when my son started his architecture course he bought a Mac book. I just couldn't get on with it because it doesn't work in the way I am used to but that doesn't mean its an inferior product.

Similarly I have always had an iPad as my tablet. My wife recently bought an Android powered tablet and I have issues with it because it isn't what I'm used to.

Given time I could learn how to use the alternatives but life is too short so I stick with what I know.

Cheers

Paul

Quote from: PaulCheffus on July 18, 2017, 09:39:29 AM

Quote from: austinbob on July 18, 2017, 09:22:09 AM
That, IMHO, is because you learn to use one device/OS and any other device is 'different' which is quite often translated as 'worse'.

I think the above sums it up very well.

On one level, yes, that's probably true. People who drive 'stick' and people who drive 'automatic' often debate which is better, but there's certainly some truth to the idea people enjoy driving whatever type of car they're most used to.

But on another level, there are parallels to our beloved model trains. We all prioritise things differently. Some people want detail first and foremost, while others want bulletproof reliability. Some are budget-conscious, while others with deeper pockets don't mind paying for the best possible quality. Some of us value DCC, others see it as a pointless complication, so find the addition of complex circuits 'just one more thing to go wrong'.

Apple Computer definitely prioritises certain things: industrial design and a seamless operating system/hardware interaction to give a couple of examples, but isn't so bothered about price or upgradability. So if you want a computer that's cheap to buy and easy to fix/upgrade, then an Apple computer isn't for you. PC manufacturers run the whole range from those manufacturers like Sony who had Apple-ish attention to detail, right through to the generic beige box makers who build to a price, and let the user chop and change components as they want.

It's all horses for courses, really. Where these discussions turn sour is when people INSIST that their priorities (for example, being a good gaming machine) is the be-all and end-all of what a computer's about, and dismiss the values that others look for as being irrelevant or misguided.

Just the same as when someone says Union Mills are the best manufacturer because their locos can haul 127 wagons up a 1-in-5 slope. Might be important to you, but not to someone else. Indeed, I'd argue a model loco marketplace without Union Mills, Farish and Dapol actively competing (and before long Revolution and DJM joining in) would be a poorer place to be. Likewise the computer marketplace would be worse off too, if we didn't have Apple doing it's thing, while Dell, Lenovo, Toshiba and all the no-name beige box outfits did theirs.

Cheers, NeMo

I switched to a Mac about four years ago, I was absolutely fed up with the constant downloads from Microsoft and wasting hours while they installed and configured.
Neither did I want to have buy and install all the anti virus and anti malware that is an extra ongoing cost to buying a PC that people seem to forget about.

I only updated the OS once at no cost and am unlikely to bother updating it again because it just works. 
Also a new Mac comes with a 12 month freephone number if there are any problems.

Yes my MacBook did seem expensive,but the case is machined from a solid piece of aluminium and not just some plastic mouldings that flex.

My partner just got a new Windows 10 laptop, about half the price of a Macbook, it's nice but not up to the quality of my old Macbook.
As usual it comes loaded with bloatware and Mcafee anti virus which will be removed when the 30 days expires,I'll have to dowload a tool to do this because Windows uninstaller can't totally remove it.
At least that will stop the constant pop ups to purchase it.

Already the updates have started to be required and as usual it's hit and miss whether any devices will install without jumping through hoops and needing to go to the manufacturers to get the latest drivers.

I found that with the Mac things just work out of the box as it were.

Allan

Quote from: Bikeracer on July 18, 2017, 12:13:18 PM
I found that with the Mac things just work out of the box as it were.

Hi

That's because Apple has complete control over the hardware, Microsoft do not.

Cheers

Paul

Here's an interesting analysis of Mac and windows software/hardware. Its based on multi user survey and its about 4 years old (so mostly Windows 7/8 comparisons).

http://lifehacker.com/mac-vs-windows-your-best-arguments-486125257

For those who don't want to read it all here's the summary.

"The Bottom Line

You can discuss the pros and cons of Macs versus Windows PCs in great detail, but here's what it comes down to according to you. Most of you recommend Macs for the following reasons:

Macs offer a more straightforward approach to computing with fewer maintenance tasks
Macs have fewer viruses and security issues (with the caveats mentioned in the relevant section above, of course)
Macs can provide a UNIX-like experience and also have commercial applications
Macs software, on average, focuses more on its user interface and making your experience enjoyable than Windows software does
Other Apple devices work best with Apple computers


Conversely, you recommended Windows PCs for these reasons:

Windows PCs provide lots of flexibility and customization (with both hardware and software)
Windows PCs offer support for cutting-edge hardware
Windows has more software available than any other platform
Windows offers great backwards-compatibility
Windows provides a great gaming experience thanks to great hardware support and lots of games
Windows offers better options for music production
Windows is the same platform most of the world uses
On average, you felt both platforms were equal in the following categories:

Ease of learning
Good for designers"

Enjoy.... 

QuoteWindows offers better options for music production

so erm why  do so many  recording studios run macs?why are  some of the top mixing desks remote software only available for mac or ipad? Maybe windoze has finally caught up ,but for serious,and  not so serious  music production the tool of choice was  always  a mac.

Aren't religious discussions a breach of the forum code of conduct?

Quote from: themadhippy on July 18, 2017, 01:43:53 PM

QuoteWindows offers better options for music production

so erm why  do so many  recording studios run macs?why are  some of the top mixing desks remote software only available for mac or ipad? Maybe windoze has finally caught up ,but for serious,and  not so serious  music production the tool of choice was  always  a mac.

I am merely pointing out the results of an independent survey. How you interpret the results or whether you accept them is entirely up to you.

Quote from: austinbob on July 18, 2017, 02:36:43 PM

Quote from: themadhippy on July 18, 2017, 01:43:53 PM

QuoteWindows offers better options for music production

so erm why  do so many  recording studios run macs?why are  some of the top mixing desks remote software only available for mac or ipad? Maybe windoze has finally caught up ,but for serious,and  not so serious  music production the tool of choice was  always  a mac.

I am merely pointing out the results of an independent survey. How you interpret the results or whether you accept them is entirely up to you.

Numbers don't mean quality. There are a *lot* of options for music production (and a lot of home studios) but the more professional ones have always tended to be Mac based. A lot of that used to be from the OS and hardware suiting it more (faster, more high end, hard drives that could reliably keep recording speed, an OS that wasn't interrupting things at random and mucking up the timing, plus of course the more reliable/ easy to use OS that let you get on with things). Lately it's down to the simple mean time between failure and easy maintenance and the history of the pro end music developers working on the Mac.

The same has always gone for the whole "More software for Windows" thing. There's always been more of it, Windows was the world's most pirated software (encouraged quietly by MS no doubt as if everyone has your OS you control the market), so there was always more people writing stuff for it, unfortunately most of it was rubbish. The same as phone apps nowadays. There's a lot of them, but finding the ones you want that do the job properly is always a challenge.

I love them both!

Quoteand for a long time the market leader

as far as pro studios go it still is,theres several young pretenders on the market including logic,cubase and reason that have tried but avid still rule the roost,pity there live desks are

I date from the days that I used to occasionally help in a shop that sold Apple 2, and Tandy computers, Meanwhile I built the UK 101 for myself and for sale ( almost aka the Ohio Superboard).

I've never got that enthusiastic about apple, mostly they are overpriced for what they do.

And I don't like Marmite

My first one was the Apple Mac Classic II.  Loved it, and was really useful for my school coursework.  My next door neighbour worked for Kings College and had a top of the range Mac, which made mine look like absolute rubbish!  LOL  They were sooo much better than PC's which were everywhere.  Just so expensive.  I went to a dealer to buy a really good one (about 1995) and they quoted me £4000!  So, that's when I had to go to PC World and got a PC....   :'(  A Pentium II, 233mhz.  It crashed constantly, as did every laptop and PC I owned up to about 2004.

Edit:-  I just remembered that for my GCSE art I did a picture of a fruit bowl where all of the fruit had a bite mark and rainbow colours.  Which I'd kept it!

Quote from: The Q on July 20, 2017, 10:55:24 AM
I've never got that enthusiastic about apple, mostly they are overpriced for what they do.

See this is where my comment about priorities is important. Yes, an Apple OS X computer is an expensive UNIX-based workstation if you're happy enough to get down-and-dirty with Linux.

But if something other than raw processor speed, RAM and hard drive statistics are important, an Apple computer can be good value. Seamless integration with peripherals, attractive and easy to learn GUI, generally good reputation for longevity, very few real world security risks, and so on -- these are all typical Apple selling points. If these matter to you, an Apple OS X system "isn't overpriced for what it does" because those are things you're happy to pay for.

Quote from: The Q on July 20, 2017, 10:55:24 AM
And I don't like Marmite

Me neither!

Cheers, NeMo