Quote from: silly moo on July 04, 2017, 05:11:35 PM
The last ten Farish steam locos I have bought (over four years) have all been excellent.

Two were Bachmann returns and one was bought recently second hand. The only problem I have had was self inflicted.

I can remember when there were pages and pages of complaints about any new model, that doesn't happen any more.

Yes things are improving. However, I tend not use box shifters for my locos anymore and use my favourite model shop who always tests a new loco for me before I buy.
Most recent and decreasingly frequent failure was a Dapol Britannia. Sounded like a broken cardan shaft socket. A common problem with these locos I understand.
Still replacement will be along soon.... Nice looking loco is that Dapol Britannia.

All my Farish stock has been bought new in the last three years or so and has been new stock rather than items that have been in store for years. Maybe my lack of problems is due to the improved regime in China over the last three years or so. It certainly would not be fair to comment on current Farish quality control based on locos built more than a few years ago. I do know that a lot of effort has been put in over recent years by Bachmann U.K. to educate the Chinese regarding quality requirements. 

I'd consider myself fairly lucky; I had a Farish 57 which was dead out of the Box, and a Dapol HST which fried itself, but that's it, out of 60 models or so.

Both were replaced immediately. Yes, it's a minor inconvenience, but meh, stuff breaks. I had to return a £1000 pair of bicycle pedals last week. At that price obviously you shouldn't have to, but it happens.

IMO there's a lot of hand wringing about reliability, but I can understand people who have far higher failure rates being annoyed. Then again, why are failure rates higher? You do wonder about user error as suggested.

As a retired Management Consultant I always explained to my Clients that poor quality is not acceptable.
It only takes one or few customers who have had a faulty product or service to put many more off the Company for the duration.
Its not about the happy customers but the unhappy ones. They have the biggest voice.
There is no excuse for suppliers getting things wrong. The customer rightly expects what he/she buys to do what it says on the tin.
Time to stop making excuses for poor quality.
Having said all this I believe N gauge stuff is improving.

But you get failures in all walks of life. Most models exhibit a classic bathtub failure curve, if anything a lopsided bath, they die quickly, or last a very long time. 

Yes, ok maybe Samsung's failure rate is lower, but their batch size and production processes are many many times larger, which itself will drive efficiency. Most n gauge stuff is probably an awkward production size - too small to be genuinely bespoke, yet not big enough to benefit from many of the economies of scale.

All you say is probably correct ngee. I repeat, however, it may be acceptable to the manufacturer that some customers get poor quality but it is NOT acceptable to any customer.
Just remember that customers do not exist to satisfy suppliers' requirements... Its the other way round.
I really don't get it why this is so difficult to understand.

Because I'm a customer. And I accept it. It's less than ideal, but I don't really care. I've never really been inconvenienced by things not working, but have benefited from it previously.

I'm not sure why that's difficult to understand and why you're telling me how I should feel?

Obviously if people want to get all stampy and shouty that's their prerogative.

I'd say it should be the other way round - failures are not acceptable to a manufacturer, but may be to a customer.

If your happy to be shipped dodgy product then that's your choice... Nothing further to be said.
If someone sold you a brand new car with faults, I'm not sure you would have the same attitude.

I'd want recompense in line with my inconvenience, plenty of examples of new cars breaking down, it's a poor example. A friend waited 6 months for a car that turned up the wrong colour, I know another whose new car had no oil, the obvious happened very quickly. You can't expect 100% perfection. I'm realistic.

"happy to be shipped dodgy product" it's a huge leap from what I said, but I don't judge companies by their product quality so much as how they act when things go wrong.

If a company consistently delivers poor quality products I'll voe with my feet and buy elsewhere, but that's not my personal experience of either Farish or Dapol. I've had a far higher failure rate with Apple products. How many people are up in arms about Apple's reliability?

Well njee I think we'll have to agree to disagree.
Not worth falling out over mate.
Enjoy your evening.

Likewise Bob, I shall return to playing on my iPhone which has been repaired once, whilst watching my replacement Sky box and keeping an eye on my son sleeping in his second, now non-faulty cot ;-)

Cheers
Nick

Quote from: njee20 on July 04, 2017, 08:55:13 PM
Likewise Bob, I shall return to playing on my iPhone which has been repaired once, whilst watching my replacement Sky box and keeping an eye on my son sleeping in his second, now non-faulty cot ;-)

Cheers
Nick

Nice one...

For me the failure of a product, any product isn't a problem unless poor customer service makes it a problem. If I order a product online and instantly receive a 'confirmation' email, then 2 weeks later receive a 'dispatched' email, followed by the product being delivered in perfect working order another 3 weeks after that, then I've got a problem.

If I order a product and it's delivered the next day but doesn't work, there's no problem until customer services don't respond with a timely efficient solution.

I've had two failed locos ever. Both were Farish split gears outside of warranty. One, a Poole Farish Class 20, I just wrote off - used it as a learning exercise in model train dis/assembly. The second, a Bachmann Farish Class 57, I repaired - emboldened by new skills acquired through the Class 20, I sourced new gears and replaced the faulty one. So neither failure was a problem for me.

Quote from: njee20 on July 04, 2017, 07:13:52 PMI had to return a £1000 pair of bicycle pedals last week.

Missing the attached bicycle, were they?

Quote from: NinOz on July 05, 2017, 05:47:17 AM

Quote from: njee20 on July 04, 2017, 07:13:52 PMI had to return a £1000 pair of bicycle pedals last week.

Missing the attached bicycle, were they?

if I get a new bike out of it I'll be really happy they stopped working!