Quote from: austinbob on March 30, 2017, 07:45:42 PM

Quote from: njee20 on March 30, 2017, 07:09:39 PM
Then get a Farish 50.

Such a helpful and sensitive response.. Don't bother replying

I'd have thought it was a fairly sensible response to be honest. If you want a model that looks sort of like a 50 then it's fine. If you want an accurate model then it isn't, really.

I don't know why some people here are making such an issue of the difficulty to the manufacturer with the detail differences - there really aren't many on the 50. The bogies are all the same (only cast ones were fitted to 50s), and there are only two body styles - original and refurbished. The headlight and the roof cut-out are probably the most noticeable differences between the two, plus other details such as grills. The multiple-working jumpers were there before refurbishment although some of the locos didn't have them initially. There are no sub-classes other than the short-lived regearing for freight use of 50049/149, but that didn't involve any visible changes other than the paint!

For the original style, the only livery is BR blue. For the refurbished ones there are BR blue, large logo, two versions of NSE, plus a number of one-off such as GWR green on 50007. In preservation there have been a few more variations.

Compare this to the Class 47, of which there are masses of variations. Farish have done a fairly good job of correctly representing these on the models so far using their new tooling. The 37 also has a lot of variants, too. The 50 is easy by comparison.

There are actually very few of the long-lived BR-era diesels which aren't now available in N gauge in a good DCC-ready model. Apart from the 50, there is the 40 (Farish in the process of developing a new model) and the Peaks (44/45/46) - this was one of the best of the pre-DCC Farish models (a few deficiencies such as over-wide bogies notwithstanding), and they don't look out of place among modern models which the 50s frankly do. I don't think there are any others, are there?

It is perhaps surprising that Farish did the prorotype Deltic, as this is a one-off with one livery (two if you count the different shade of blue in preservation!) and will therefore surely have limited opportunity for re-runs as there won't be that many who want one. Especially given that there can't be many people left around now who actually saw it move under its own power!

Quote from: davidinyork on March 30, 2017, 08:37:06 PM
It is perhaps surprising that Farish did the prorotype Deltic, as this is a one-off with one livery (two if you count the different shade of blue in preservation!) and will therefore surely have limited opportunity for re-runs as there won't be that many who want one. Especially given that there can't be many people left around now who actually saw it move under its own power!

I think one problem is that the 50s were not popular locos for much of their lives. They were at best inconsistent during their LMR days, and once on the WR, they were pretty much loathed as the locomotives used to kill off the much-loved 'Westerns'.

It really wasn't until after refurbishment that their stock began to rise, not just because they performed better than they ever had done before (which isn't saying much) but also because they really were interesting by comparison to the countless 47s, 37s and HSTs you'd otherwise seen on at Paddington, Bristol or the western part of the SR. I remember those years well, and in their large logo livery they added quite a bit of glamour to the otherwise rather uniform WR scene. Of course they were on borrowed time by then, their work largely taken over by HSTs, so there was a sense that the 50s were the "last gasp" of express diesel-hauled passenger working, making rides behind them a little more memorable than they might have been.

My point here is that the 50s aren't iconic in the same way as the 'Deltic' (or Deltic class) and aren't adored by enthusiasts like the 'Westerns', which may explain why the demand for them isn't perceived to be there. Of course they have their fans, but as a class, they were never really popular until well into the 1980s, and I'm not sure their popularity ever matched the sustained levels of classes like the Deltics or Westerns.

Cheers, NeMo

More specifically, with the Class 55 Farish have modelled the cast (rather than fabricated) variant of the bogies - Classes 37 and 55 have had both types fitted at various times, but Class 50s only ever had the cast ones. The Farish model of the prototype Deltic has the bogies represented (correctly) as fabricated ones - which would not be correct for a Class 50.
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But could you tell in N scale at 2 foot? Bogie centre difference could be jarring but bogie fabrication? c'mon 
[/quote]

Sorry but your arguments are weak when you can't use the correct terminology.

N Scale is 1:160 ie US or European
2mm is 1:152 ie British 2mm Fine Scale

We are discussing N Gauge or 1:148 models, now just because Bachmann a mainly American orientated Chinese company has started in correctly calling it n scale doesn't mean we should. Unless their trying to tell us that all there new stuff is or will be wrong!

Personally I want a properly shaped, scaled and detailed large logo or NSE class 50 for my hard earned pounds, after all that is the industry these manufacturers have chosen to operate in. So why shouldn't we get a class 50 that is the right scale dimensions where practical, looks 100% correct with the right detail.

Quote from: Only Me on March 30, 2017, 08:28:48 PM
Im watching this arguement with one hand over the end thread button... keep it civil please gentlemen.......

Sounds like "Blankety Blank" 

Handbags at 50 paces..........

In my opinion, there is a market for an up to date class 50 made to the current standard. The Farish 50 was fine for its time but I think it now looks out of place next to the models of its contemporary classes (Farish 08, 20, 25, 31, 37, 40, 45 and 47; and the Dapol 33, 52, 56 and 58). I am sure someone will make a new one in the coming years as I think the demand is there. If nobody thinks a loco like a class 50 made to modern standards is viable, then I think British N has a bleak future.

Quote from: escafeld on March 30, 2017, 10:33:51 PM

Quote from: Formerly NtasticShop on March 30, 2017, 09:21:13 PM
Personally I want a properly shaped, scaled and detailed large logo or NSE class 50 for my hard earned pounds, after all that is the industry these manufacturers have chosen to operate in. So why shouldn't we get a class 50 that is the right scale dimensions where practical, looks 100% correct with the right detail.

Buy a CJM one then that's already available http://www.cjmmodels.co.uk/products/cjm-class-50/

Even down to a choice of windscreen wiper

£545     Now where's that mortgage application form?

I'm not too concerned about the lack of detail on the Farish 50. My problem is that they haven't captured the shape of the front end. This means that for me it just hasn't got the right character and this stops it from being convincing enough for me buy. I was tempted by a secondhand one a while ago but in the end it just wasn't close enough to looking right. I wouldn't worry too much about the bogies as they aren't far off and for me it doesn't detract from the character of the loco.

The great work that Dapol did in N was creating locos that really did look right and forced Farish to up their game. The class 50 does have quite a following and I fully expect a decent N gauge model will appear as it is the only mainstream U.K. diesel that doesn't have a decent model available. I wouldn't place a bet on who will make it at the moment. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turned out there have been discussions on the subject in places other than Dapol.

Quote from: escafeld on March 30, 2017, 10:33:51 PM

Quote from: Formerly NtasticShop on March 30, 2017, 09:21:13 PM
Personally I want a properly shaped, scaled and detailed large logo or NSE class 50 for my hard earned pounds, after all that is the industry these manufacturers have chosen to operate in. So why shouldn't we get a class 50 that is the right scale dimensions where practical, looks 100% correct with the right detail.

Buy a CJM one then that's already available http://www.cjmmodels.co.uk/products/cjm-class-50/

Even down to a choice of windscreen wiper

Probably be a long wait for it though - CJM's order book has quite likely got a bit longer since the Dapol announcement!

Quote from: GreatBigBlue on March 30, 2017, 09:37:22 PM

Quote from: Formerly NtasticShop on March 30, 2017, 09:21:13 PM


More specifically, with the Class 55 Farish have modelled the cast (rather than fabricated) variant of the bogies - Classes 37 and 55 have had both types fitted at various times, but Class 50s only ever had the cast ones. The Farish model of the prototype Deltic has the bogies represented (correctly) as fabricated ones - which would not be correct for a Class 50.

But could you tell in N scale at 2 foot? Bogie centre difference could be jarring but bogie fabrication? c'mon 

Quote

Sorry but your arguments are weak when you can't use the correct terminology.

N Scale is 1:160 ie US or European
2mm is 1:152 ie British 2mm Fine Scale

We are discussing N Gauge or 1:148 models, now just because Bachmann a mainly American orientated Chinese company has started in correctly calling it n scale doesn't mean we should. Unless their trying to tell us that all there new stuff is or will be wrong!

Personally I want a properly shaped, scaled and detailed large logo or NSE class 50 for my hard earned pounds, after all that is the industry these manufacturers have chosen to operate in. So why shouldn't we get a class 50 that is the right scale dimensions where practical, looks 100% correct with the right detail.

I find your comment very offensive. You  know damn well what I meant  by N scale and everybody else did too!

Anyway. I have had enough of this. It's enough to make me go OO/HO scale (see what I did there).  essentially we are talking here about the difference between an accurate impression of a locomotive (call it art) and having to have every detail represented though you can't see it most of the time (call it OCD). Goodbye forum....
[/quote]

Right so it is offensive to point out your mistakes but you are entitled to criticise members who want the correct detail in the correct scale. I admit I may have overly made my point but I find offensive (well irritating when people miss use terminology and scale). Partly because as a surveyor / engineer I spend my life working to scale.

Quote from: escafeld on March 30, 2017, 10:33:51 PM

Quote from: Formerly NtasticShop on March 30, 2017, 09:21:13 PM
Personally I want a properly shaped, scaled and detailed large logo or NSE class 50 for my hard earned pounds, after all that is the industry these manufacturers have chosen to operate in. So why shouldn't we get a class 50 that is the right scale dimensions where practical, looks 100% correct with the right detail.

Buy a CJM one then that's already available http://www.cjmmodels.co.uk/products/cjm-class-50/

Even down to a choice of windscreen wiper

Not convinced by this model either, no lights, not DCC ready and at 4 times the price of a Dapol / Farish model if either did a new modern version. That said I do appreciate that these are all effectively limited edition bespoke models, I just cannot justify the cost of one.

Thread locked in 5, 4, 3, 2...

Personally I'm most offended by the inability to use the quote button.

Kinda missing the point of CJM too I fear.

Last week I bought a second hand class 50 off eBay. For an old model, to me, it wasn't too bad. Only paid a few quid for it. The plan is to get some extra detail bits and pieces for it and then repaint it. This will be my first project of this kind in N gauge. Bottom of my to do list at the moment but looking forward to giving it a crack.
Certainly a better bet than taking out a mortgage on a CJM or waiting years for someone to produce a new model.

Quote from: GreatBigBlue on March 31, 2017, 07:39:53 PM
I am criticising people who want 100% accuracy as I think that it may well spell the end for our hobby due to cost and a possible discouragement to manufacturers scared of getting a slating here and in the model railway press that impacted on sales.

Trouble is you are coming across as saying that because you aren't bothered about having every detail correct no-one else should be bothered and even that manufacturers should deliberately make models less accurate than is technically possible...


It actually costs no more to put a vent in the right place as to put it in the wrong place. I suspect that releasing an inaccurate model would lose more in sales than any small cost in getting things right. If that wasn't the case, everyone would be shunning the new Farish Deltics, 47, 37 etc and Farish would be churning out more models using the old Poole tooling...

As I said last night and you have clearly ignored;

Quote from: PLD on March 30, 2017, 07:03:20 PM
That is your opinion, which you are entitled to hold but it is not a universal opinion.

If you wish others to respect you having that opinion, you shouldn't claim that you speak for the majority...

If you want others to respect your opinion, you need to reciprocate - respect others opinions and accept that they may not be the same as yours.

And you built up everyone's hopes last night. Such a shame that like Dapol you didn't deliver what you promised... 

Quote from: GreatBigBlue on March 30, 2017, 09:37:22 PMAnyway. I have had enough of this. It's enough to make me go OO/HO scale (see what I did there).  essentially we are talking here about the difference between an accurate impression of a locomotive (call it art) and having to have every detail represented though you can't see it most of the time (call it OCD). Goodbye forum....