Glad you put it that way escafeld. I'd be very disappointed if I didn't get my evening star!!!

Just a couple of thoughts for those (partly justified) accusing Dapol of a "Land Grab" in announcing those models when they did and encouraging other manufacturers (particularly DJM & Revolution) to "Grab" those same prototypes now...

1. Joel has been man enough to step forward and admit that the previous regime at the company were over ambitious and announced far too many models than was feasible for them to deliver in a reasonable timescale.

2. Who was the Product Development Manager at Dapol at the time of the alleged "Land Grab"??

So... What makes you thing these prototypes would progress any faster on someone else's ever growing back list of not-yet-delivered models than they have on Dapol's books?

QuoteI feel I would be wary of putting my money into any "crowdfunding" for any of the classes in question. At the back of my mind would always be the worry that Dapol would dust off the relevant model and shove it into production, thereby sinking the crowdfunded version in mid-channel

A proper crowdfunded project proceeds only when it reaches the target funding, so sales are guaranteed and the subsequent release of a competing product would not be an issue. Projects funded in this way remove much of the risk and financing burden for the project manager and do seem the best way forward for new players in N.

Quote from: Rabbitaway on March 18, 2017, 02:18:02 PM
If produced by others we may get better models as we all know Dapol QC is poor

Well that rules out Farish then.

Quote from: Roy L S on March 18, 2017, 05:51:26 PM

Hi Paul

Possibly because it has taken years to admit to it prior to which there had been no suggestion that these models were not progressing towards production.

I am not interested in the models affected personally but had I pre-ordered and been patiently waiting I would have been an unhappy bunny too.

Regards

Roy

Unfortunately some of the little bunnies are carrying on as though this is all some kind of personal insult.

Nothing like a good dose of internet outrage to get one through the weekend 

Quote from: Karhedron on March 17, 2017, 12:09:20 PM
Announcement from Dapol.

Well that sucks, I was looking forward to the Light Pacifics in particular.

http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=blog%2Fpost&post_id=43#.WMvNx-hskGw.facebook

Quote
The effects of the decision to leave the EU last June continue, particularly on the devaluation of Sterling and the increase in the general feeling of uncertainty as the actual leave date looms. These effects coupled with the continued inflationary pressures being experienced in China means that the decision to invest in projects and develop new lines is becoming increasingly difficult. Not only is the unit cost of models rising at an alarming rate but the cost of the tooling is also escalating. Tooling prices are now more than double what they were 7 years ago.

As a company we appreciate that this is an increasingly expensive hobby and that the current economic uncertainty threatens discretionary model purchasing. The crunch that we find ourselves in with alarmingly rising costs, dwindling volumes due to higher retail prices being required means we have to be realistic about what we can and cannot develop.

It is my responsibility as MD of Dapol to ensure the company's sustainability and the long term future of the business. Not only do I have a responsibility to our fantastic customer base but I also have a workforce which depends on Dapol's success.

With this predicament at the forefront, the company has to make difficult decisions about our funding and prioritising of projects, especially those that made financial sense when first announced but currently do not. Unfortunately, some previously announced and mooted projects will have to be put on abeyance until the economic conditions become more favourable. This is particularly, but not exclusively the case in N gauge were the small size of the market, the relatively high cost of manufacture and natural cap on retail prices means that returns are least favourable. Projects such as the Class 50, Class 59, prototype HST, Battle of Britain and others are being delayed as result of this. Over the next two weeks we will update our development pages on the website to reflect these decisions, so please look there to find out about any of our projects that are of interest to you.

Coupled with this statement is also an apology from me. Dapol as a company has undoubtedly over announced products in the past which has led to this situation. The tendency to be overly optimistic about development times and unrealistic about what can be achieved has been prevalent. It is our intention that any new models announced from now on will have been researched and developed to an extent that the model will be in store within 14 months of being made public.

It is also our intention to make more products at our own factory in the UK. This is a slow process with huge learning challenges, however we all at Dapol are committed to this and are proud of what we make in our small factory in Chirk.

I thank you all for your patience and understanding

Kind Regards



Joel Bright

MD

Oh. No. This isn't good.

Please don't quote the entire post in your reply, we know what you're talking about, it just makes the whole thread hard to read.

I do agree that I reliveries should be "safe", they're easy money for Dapol, they'd be daft not to do them.

Time perhaps for one of the new players to step up with a cheeky crowdfunded proposal for one of the deferred locos. The Class 50 and WC are surely solid bets even in N. And even if Dapol did change their minds as an attempted spoiler, would you switch back to them given their record of non-delivery?   

That could be too much of a gamble. DJM had said he's not doing any more crowdfunding. It doesn't feel like Dapol could spring a surprise and bring something to market in 3 months (or they would have), but it's an uncertain landscape for any crowdfunding venture to go up against. Which is exactly the scenario they want to create.

I've no idea how the likes of Revolution deal with cancelled orders on models after they've entered production. One would hope people aren't so fickle as to jump ship at the first sign of something else on the horizon, but again, I'm not sure I'd take that risk knowing Dapol have done some work. That said I think we've only seen CADs of the WC/50, and Ben has previously observed that they're the cheap and easy bit!

Crowdfunding is expensive for the producer but I would argue that the much lower risk it entails makes it worth it, especially with a product like the 50 or WC which would likely see higher demand than most previous crowdfunded models.

Revolution take a substantial deposit upfront with your order and refund only if the project is aborted, so I think their exposure to customer cancellation will be low. In contrast, I wonder how DJM are going to fare with their expression-of-interest approach on the King; when they hit the decision date it will be hard to judge how much of that interest will translate into firm orders, especially with the Farish Castle coming to market about that time.

I'd love to see DJM, Revolution or another small maker step up to this opportunity but I suspect they have their hands full already. 

Quote from: longbow on March 19, 2017, 03:32:58 AM
Time perhaps for one of the new players to step up with a cheeky crowdfunded proposal for one of the deferred locos. The Class 50 and WC are surely solid bets even in N.

Diseasels are relatively simple in comparison with a 4-6-2 pacific steam loco. You have to ask yourself who could produce the complicated working motion which is a far cry from a simple 0-6-0 with one connecting rod, shall we say for example. Currently that might leave you with either Farish or DJ Models.
I can't see either picking up the reins

Dapol have said on their Facebook page that the statement affects only untooled items and that the new HSTs and Classes 68, 142 and 66 Evening Star are all going ahead.

Quote from: funnysunny365 on March 19, 2017, 01:24:51 AM

Quote from: Karhedron on March 17, 2017, 12:09:20 PM
Announcement from Dapol.

Well that sucks, I was looking forward to the Light Pacifics in particular.

http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=blog%2Fpost&post_id=43#.WMvNx-hskGw.facebook

Oh. No. This isn't good.

funnysunny365, please ignore the post about not putting all of the quote in, sometimes some threads get that long some of us don't want to read what can take 3 or 4 hours to read, i know i have done it, so i reminder again about the OP is good IMO, but i do agree that some times members just keep on quoting the same post over and over again, but it is really easy to scroll down isn't it my using your mouse or even god forbid the little thing at the side of the screen you click on and move lol. Keep posting and enjoy your modelling.     

Quote from: PLD on March 18, 2017, 11:55:49 PM
Just a couple of thoughts for those (partly justified) accusing Dapol of a "Land Grab" in announcing those models when they did and encouraging other manufacturers (particularly DJM & Revolution) to "Grab" those same prototypes now...

1. Joel has been man enough to step forward and admit that the previous regime at the company were over ambitious and announced far too many models than was feasible for them to deliver in a reasonable timescale.

2. Who was the Product Development Manager at Dapol at the time of the alleged "Land Grab"??

So... What makes you thing these prototypes would progress any faster on someone else's ever growing back list of not-yet-delivered models than they have on Dapol's books?

Hi great mail, but nicely overlooking and possibly ignoring the facts.

Fact 1) yes the BOB /WC, the 59, the 50 were announced by me.
However, if you think I just woke up one day and thought 'I know, I'll announce these and just do it' without recourse / permission from my CEO, then that's incorrect and Ill thought through.

Fact 2) I've been left 4 years this coming July 22, so am I at fault for those 4 years for the lack of development on those projects? I'm not sure you thought that through either.

However, never let a good post and possible axe to grind get in the way of an incorrect post eh?

Quote from: longbow on March 19, 2017, 04:07:47 AM
Revolution take a substantial deposit upfront with your order and refund only if the project is aborted, so I think their exposure to customer cancellation will be low..

Principally I agree, but it's never been tested if someone suddenly brought 'their' product to market early in the process. It shouldn't make a difference, but it's something I would be considering were I Ben and Mike.

Interesting Dapol say that tooled items are safe, wonder if that excludes the HIA and MJA hoppers. I suspect so, which is a shame. Suspect they'd be good sellers, the OO gauge ones were a total bargain.