Given that homes in the UK ( apologies to those not living here) are getting smaller, are Hornby missing out and sticking their heads in the sand by sticking to the OO gauge market in the UK.

Surely they would be better off gettting into the N gauge market, isn't that the way things are really going in the UK

Frankly ?  No ...

They are untried in the N market (please don't quote the BB at me  ) with little to put forward in the timescales they'd need to ...  While some of their European operations may put fingers into this market (hence the BB ...) Hornby as a UK brand lacks any toe-hold ...

Now if they'd tried this a few years ago & had a small range of steam, diesel and rolling stock, then they'd be able to build on that.

OO is where the main market is; N is far smaller ...

Quote from: MikeDunn on February 17, 2016, 09:16:17 PM
Frankly ?  No ...

They are untried in the N market (please don't quote the BB at me  ) with little to put forward in the timescales they'd need to ...  While some of their European operations may put fingers into this market (hence the BB ...) Hornby as a UK brand lacks any toe-hold ...

Now if they'd tried this a few years ago & had a small range of steam, diesel and rolling stock, then they'd be able to build on that.

OO is where the main market is; N is far smaller ...

Is OO the main market though, maybe 5 yrs ago, I was talking to a mate who works in a Hornby concession, now he says he gets more equiries for N gauge than he does OO.
Plus as a member of a club that runs an exhibition we are getting asked more and more for N gauge specialists at our show

Walk into pretty much any model rail store : how large is OO, how large is N ?

QED

Not saying N isn't growing - but the market share is far smaller than OO.

I have to say that a lot of people new to/returning to the hobby who come in to my shop are going for N rather than OO...

I read somewhere (trustworthy ish) the other day that N is now edging towards 20% of the market and OO is at about 60% - So there is something of a move towards N, but not exactly a landslip.

I never quite get the "houses are getting smaller" idea people often come out with though - the vast majority of housing stock in this country is the same size it was when it was built to the then current housing spec. ( as a minimum, lots of people have extensions).
I agree that there are some very small dwellings available now, but that is a matter of choice.

The proposition is (1) that Hornby are missing out on a growing market for a smaller gauge
with a sub-plot that (2) they are being ostriches

(1) anecdotal evidence suggests a growing popularity of N within a very limited field of (modern children's) interest:
but there is no evidence that the main players BachFar and Kato, are growing fat on the market,  ie. they are not expanding their range into the UK market to exploit any such vast niche.

(2) even suppose (1) was true, are Hornby in a financial position to do anything about it ? ie. not sand but reality

If Hornby thought there was such a market to be exploited and could persuade investors to stump up the wherewithall then they would, because of their brand name / public awareness , be in a good position to exploit any emerging market due to 'little boxes' but I see no rush of capital in that direction, , ,

yet dream on.

OO still dominates manufacturers plans but N gauge isn't far behind as this table, dervied from a Hornby magazine article, shows.
Number of new UK products planned from all manufacturers:-

Locos
N -25
OO - 49
O - 10

Coaches
N-6
OO-9
O - 0

Wagons
N - 8
OO -24
O -9

Quote from: Chris m on February 18, 2016, 08:39:20 AM
but N gauge isn't far behind

You forgot something in your zeal to show how fast N is gaining ... 

Totals

N		39
OO		82
O		19

Less than half the total of OO is being done in N, and %age-wise it's

N		28%
OO		59%
O		14%

(yes, I know that's 101%    I'm rounding up at 0.5%)

So - barely over a quarter is N ...  Not a brilliant figure.

But all this is meaningless unless you are able to provide the same stats for at least 2 more consecutive years (and preferably more) so that a trend may be visible - otherwise, you're speculating on no data.

N is doing better, yes - but let's not convince ourselves that it will rival or kill OO anytime soon !!!

Personally I wouldn't trust Hornbys figures, their interest lies in showing that OO is still as popular as it always was. Surely the underlying trend in sales of OO has to be down, if it were not Hornby wouldn't be in the do-do.

Bachmann have the Farish sales to help them out, OK Hornby have Arnold on the continent, but the competition is greater.

On the point of housing, new houses being built today are half the size of houses built in the fifties, and the gardens are roughly a 1/3rd the size, existing stock naturally is the same size, and the growth in the extension market is due partly to house being small and as children grow more space is required. On this point SWmbo took me house hunting on a new build before Christmas, in the smallest houses ( 2 bed) they are now using pocket doors to save space, and if you put a 12 x 8 shed on the garden you would barely have room left to put a rotary airer up.

Quote from: Graham Walters on February 18, 2016, 09:58:47 AM
I wouldn't trust Hornbys figures

It's not Hornby's figures    It's stated as Hornby Magazine's figures, and we've already covered off (in another topic ?) the fact that Hornby Magazine has no connection these days to Hornby.

Quote from: Graham Walters
On the point of housing, new houses being built today are half the size of houses built in the fifties

I'd disagree here too 

OK, some are smaller, yes - and some are larger.  It depends on what the purchaser is looking for !  Just because you're looking at the smaller end of the market doesn't mean the other end doesn't exist ...

Price is going to be an issue here, no doubt; unfortunately for the purchaser, the builders (especially at the lower end) look to cram in as much as possible in the site they have.  This is less the case moving up-market, as they tend to gain the additional money from the enhancements they sell ...

But if you're looking at the smaller housing stock, there's no point complaining the rooms/gardens are too small !  If that is the case, you need to look further up the market ...  But this has pretty much always been true, just more so these days.

Anyway - this housing stuff is all 

Quote from: MikeDunn on February 17, 2016, 09:16:17 PM
(please don't quote the BB at me  )
,
(hence the BB ...) Hornby as a UK brand lacks

That was a bit unfair, forbidding us mention the BB and,,
then,,
mentioning the BB  !!!!

Quote from: MikeDunn on February 17, 2016, 09:16:17 PM
Now if they'd tried this a few years ago & had a small range of steam, diesel and rolling stock, then they'd be able to build on that.

This sort of thing?

;^)

I think 00 will always be popular because most of the train sets destined for children are that scale.

You could argue that N is suitable for children but most of the little ones aren't careful enough to handle N.

The Thomas and Brio sets are roughly 00 size, then at the other end of the spectrum there are those adults who move away from N to 00 and 0 because of failing eyesight.

Quote from: silly moo on February 18, 2016, 11:52:42 AM
You could argue that N is suitable for children but most of the little ones aren't careful enough to handle N.

and one could also argue that 'playing' is to develop skills , so as long as parents dont get to 'precious' about their   the models then the kids will eventually benifit,
but I am all for wooden toys for the very young - I remember mine that Dad cut out for me with his fretsaw and turned on his lathe especially the one that had one wheel not exactly true and it bobbed up and down, I think he did that on purpose !

Quotethere are those adults who move away from N to 00 and 0 because of failing eyesight.

or because the kids have flown and we now have spare rooms   

I think we should move to "General Discussion" !