It really is a shame that it is such a hit and miss thing. This hasn't been such an issue for me personally with OO items or US N gauge, but has been a huge issue with UK N. The Tornado story says a lot. Having to check a few locos to find the one that works best seems ridiculous for something which costs nigh on 150 quid. I recently bought a couple of new Dapols which all the reviews and most purchasers say run quietly and smoothly but to my ears and eyes this still isn't the case. The last two Kato and Walthers on the other hand run beautifully.

I'm no expert but it seems to me that the call for super detailing by the model railway press are partly to blame.

No sense in having a pretty looking loco if it runs like a bag of manure, I have not heard of one complaint on this forum from people that have invested in Union Mills and 25 year old Minitrix steam locos both of which have great running characteristics but little in the way of detail.

I would get back into modelling British N gauge steam in an instant if the models were reliable and worked right out of the box but they don't.

I like you live on the other side of the world and sympathize with you as I am in the same boat, I cant even get a retailer to test a loco here in Brisbane, if a person takes a faulty loco back to the store the staff come up with every excuse possible including you broke it yourself.

A friend and myself have been banned from entering two hobby shops because of arguments with unhelpful staff, my mate now buys overseas and I buy second hand at the best stocked model train shop in Brisbane which is located in a backyard shed, the policy is Refund, Replace or Repair and is a great meeting place for a Saturday morning cuppa, out of well over 50 locos I have bought there I have only had one faulty which he exchanged with no questions asked and you can test the locos yourself.

So what if I did pay extra to have it tested and it still didn't work when it arrived?

You would probably get the stock answer of "it was fine when it left us".

All of my Poole Farish loco's worked fine out of the box. But the score elsewhere is;
Peco: Two Colletts, both returned. Now working fine.
Bachfar: Five locos, one returned (61XX). Now working fine.
Ixion: One loco (Hoping for another). 100% perfect until I lost a plug.
Dapol: Tank locos fine (. Tender locos, one returned, two needed attention (Total bought, two Halls).

Quote from: oldrailbug on December 02, 2011, 05:35:32 AM
I'm no expert but it seems to me that the call for super detailing by the model railway press are partly to blame.

Fully agree with this statement and if the manufacturers might get models to market a bit quicker if they cut down on the detailing.

It would be interesting to know where a retailer would stand if he/she were returning locos on a regular basis to a manufacturer,before they had even left the shop....
Would a manufacturer be inclined or have the right to stop supplying a retailer,if the retailer was returning a high % of stock before it had even been sold....?

I owened a tv sales and repair shop so i always tested the tv or video before sale to make sure it worked so no cost to shop owners would be involed but a lot of good will .

kevin141

At the risk of repeating myself - for our overseas modellers try Maurice at Osborns. He is normally very obliging about stuff like this (and at no cost).

On the wider issue of whether it should be necessary etc - please can we not repeat multiple recent debates where some get increasingly het up about quality/testing.  We risk giving a false impression to newcomers to N gauge and that doesn't benefit the scale in the long run - we know that some people have been desperately unlucky (and subsequently unhappy) with their purchases, report it and move on.

Cheers, Mike

I think it is just honesty. It is a big issue and that is why it keeps cropping up. It is a cause of a fair few leaving British N gauge and I think it is only right that newcomers know what they are letting themselves in for. I know this view isn't that popular and threads on forums that say too much always get locked.

In some cases it is honesty (which is why I say report it), but in some cases it ends up going too far with unrealistic expectations.

However the biggest problem IMO is that it creates a false perception - how does a modeller who has had many locos with no problems get across the same degree of effect on the reader as some of the negatives comments that we see on here and other sites?  It is well recognised that we are much more likely to complain than to praise, and I would go further and say that negative comments have a disproportionately high impact on the reader compared to positive comments.

Just as the manufacturers have a duty to produce decent products (and I am the first to point out errors or problems), we also have a duty to manufacturers and to the scale (and hobby) to be as fair and balanced as possible (that does not mean hiding faults or problems).

Quote from: oldrailbug on December 02, 2011, 05:35:32 AM
I'm no expert but it seems to me that the call for super detailing by the model railway press are partly to blame.

Except it wasn't just the modelling press, but customers that want it.  Let's not regress 30 years with poorly detailed or just plain wrong models. 

Quote from: oldrailbug on December 02, 2011, 05:35:32 AM
No sense in having a pretty looking loco if it runs like a bag of manure, I have not heard of one complaint on this forum from people that have invested in Union Mills and 25 year old Minitrix steam locos both of which have great running characteristics but little in the way of detail.

Sorry, but that is incorrect on the Minitrix front - some of the steam models were nicely done but couldn't pull a thing (eg the Ivatt) or were just plain wrong (was it the 9F on a German 2-10-0 chassis?).

Quote from: oldrailbug on December 02, 2011, 05:35:32 AM
I like you live on the other side of the world and sympathize with you as I am in the same boat, I cant even get a retailer to test a loco here in Brisbane, if a person takes a faulty loco back to the store the staff come up with every excuse possible including you broke it yourself.

Likewise I sympathise, but fortunately in the UK our consumer laws protect the customer in that regard.

Cheers, Mike

This topic is a real hot potato, i just hope that the manufactures are watching - if reliability isn't an issue, why is there thread, after thread, after thread complaining about faults ?

Doesn't need a rocket scientist to figure that out... 

I personally switched to US N Scale 6 months ago, and have never regretted it - all i have to worry about is where can i buy it ! I still have a few British loco's and may still buy more in the future, but i'm certainly not confident enough to spend lots on them - and i'm not the only one...

I really don't understand the die hards who persist in the belief that it's acceptable to have a accurate show piece that waddles like a duck, or runs fine for five minutes and then spontainously combusts ! Crazy....

Quote from: 4x2ybecauseican on December 02, 2011, 03:15:16 PM
This topic is a real hot potato, i just hope that the manufactures are watching - if reliability isn't an issue, why is there thread, after thread, after thread complaining about faults ?

Because as I said - it is human nature to complain.  Without some sort of context as to the scale of the problem eg is it 5 in 10, 5 in 100, 5 in 1000 that have a problem then it is difficult for us to make a judgement about things! How many of the problems are actually reported back to retailers/manufacturers?

Quote from: 4x2ybecauseican on December 02, 2011, 03:15:16 PM
I really don't understand the die hards who persist in the belief that it's acceptable to have a accurate show piece that waddles like a duck, or runs fine for five minutes and then spontainously combusts ! Crazy....

Equally I don't understand how people can have so many issues! But anyway your point is a straw man - no one is saying that any of your problems are acceptable, but if you expect every model to be 100% reliable then you are not being realistic.

Quote from: Elvinley on December 02, 2011, 02:43:30 PM
I think it is just honesty. It is a big issue and that is why it keeps cropping up. It is a cause of a fair few leaving British N gauge and I think it is only right that newcomers know what they are letting themselves in for. I know this view isn't that popular and threads on forums that say too much always get locked.

We certainly wouldn't lock a thread where people are making considered comments but when things start getting silly and people start getting personal or making wild accusations then we will look at things in a different light, as has happened previously.

Now if you would all like to answer Veronicas' initial question and (this is not the first time I have requested this!) please post your factual and considered review of an loco or item of rolling stock in the appropriate section as this is where people will look for your opinions, not in here.

Thank you

I am going to do that today with my recent N purchases.

In my experience the failure rate is way too high, it's been said many times and not just by me... Other scales have also have some issues, but nowhere near the scale of British N gauge. It seems there are groups who will defend manufacturers and others who will slate them - I sit squarely in the middle, praise where it's due and will complain if needed, but in general reliabilty most UK manufacturers need a good kick up the butt right now  

In Veronica's original post she askes if you would pay extra to have it pre-tested in the shop... I say 'why should we need to ?'