Hi all,

I am wondering; people say they need to "audition" a number of locos for good running when buying Dapol or Farish, often wanting to see them run and giving them a good look over first if this is possible. Is it the same with Kato locos or do they generally work straight from the box?

I understand it's wise to check things if that is possible, but people mostly talk of smooth running right from the start with Kato and purchasers of some other brands often speak of problems with British outline stuff, and having to maybe reject 5 (or more) out of ten (or fewer) to get a more or less good one.

I'd admit to being a little daunted by all this.

Since I have to rely on mail order I can't really check for myself first, so I am wondering what could work best for my situation. Being housebound the ability to return faulty items is not a given for me.

Maybe some of you regularly buy both types and could give me some general idea about what my expectations might reasonably be in this regard? I'd be really appreciative if you can.

Much depends on the type of layout you want, British or foreign ,
and which era you wish to model.

Kato are all foreign locos whereas Dapol , Farish and Union Mills
are British. Kato seem to have a reputation for reliability whereas
Dapol and Farish have had some mixed opinions about running well
straight from the box.

Union Mills produce locos which are well regarded for liability.
No simple answer, it would be depressing if you bought
something which had to be returned. 

Perhaps you know someone who could buy a loco for you from
a model shop and get a test run carried out on the spot.

Anyway good luck, hope things work out!

Quote from: Agrippa on July 05, 2015, 09:06:29 AM
Much depends on the type of layout you want, British or foreign ,
and which era you wish to model.

I am looking at this the other way around right now; what appears to be routinely reliable might be the most sensible thing to acquire a taste for. I accept that I am in the fortunate situation of not having too many of anything to be terribly set in my ways yet.

I've got a couple of Dapols right now one seems ok ish but dwindling now it's about 7 months old, and the other (a month younger) is not too bad and seems like it might continue that way, was wondering about trying a Farish next then thought "I wonder if I could get to like Japanese stuff at all".

I am rather forced more towards the practical and less toward what I would favour the most.

For all that, I have been thinking about how to stock my future layout and I have what may well end up being a fairly novel and quirky approach to the outcome. More on that at a later date! 

Quirkiness (Rule 1) is a good way to buy stock if you don't have
a particular region or era in mind!

I'd go for a Union Mills loco , these all being prewar designs
you could use to haul British wagons and /or coaches,
or a Kato multiple unit. A Kato tram is also an option!

If you have  limited mobility you want to get  your trains
running rather than  having the hassle of trying to return
faulty locos even if it only happens once.

Quirkiness  rules!

Quote from: Ancient Hermit on July 05, 2015, 08:38:53 AM
I am wondering; people say they need to "audition" a number of locos for good running when buying Dapol or Farish, often wanting to see them run and giving them a good look over first if this is possible. Is it the same with Kato locos or do they generally work straight from the box?

Most Kato models are reliable and smooth-running. But as stated above, you really don't have any British outline models (there is a Kato Class 66, but in European, not British, liveries and made to European, not British, N-scale).

Quote from: Ancient Hermit on July 05, 2015, 08:38:53 AM
I understand it's wise to check things if that is possible, but people mostly talk of smooth running right from the start with Kato and purchasers of some other brands often speak of problems with British outline stuff, and having to maybe reject 5 (or more) out of ten (or fewer) to get a more or less good one.

There's a lot of guff spoken about the quality of Farish and Dapol models. The vast majority run without any problems at all. But forums provide a very biassed assessment of the quality of UK-market model trains. People are more likely to post messages about problems than situations where the model train is working normally. (As the old saw goes, a dog biting a man isn't news, but a man biting a dog is.)

Union Mills steam locos are nice, but they're not particularly well detailed, and only a limited range of models is offered (nothing GWR for a start, and nothing from the BR Standard range of steam locomotives either). You're essentially limited to older LNER, LMS and a few pre-grouping types, all with internal valve gear, and mostly 0-6-0 or 0-8-0 tender engines.

Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a modern diesel or electric loco from either Farish or Dapol if the prototype was one I liked. For example: the Network SouthEast liveried Dapol Class 86 is one of their monthly specials for £50, and it's not just beautiful to look at it also happens to be a very quiet and reliable model as well. Overhead electrics don't seem to sell well, but if you're after something quirky, it's hard to beat (and being a preserved loco, actually ran in these colours up until a few weeks ago).

http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=product/special

Cheers, NeMo

Quote from: Ancient Hermit on July 05, 2015, 08:38:53 AM
Hi all,

I am wondering; people say they need to "audition" a number of locos for good running when buying Dapol or Farish, often wanting to see them run and giving them a good look over first if this is possible. Is it the same with Kato locos or do they generally work straight from the box?

I understand it's wise to check things if that is possible, but people mostly talk of smooth running right from the start with Kato and purchasers of some other brands often speak of problems with British outline stuff, and having to maybe reject 5 (or more) out of ten (or fewer) to get a more or less good one.

I'd admit to being a little daunted by all this.

Since I have to rely on mail order I can't really check for myself first, so I am wondering what could work best for my situation. Being housebound the ability to return faulty items is not a given for me.

Maybe some of you regularly buy both types and could give me some general idea about what my expectations might reasonably be in this regard? I'd be really appreciative if you can.

My experience, Ian, is that out of the 12 Kato locos I have purchased, all have been great runners straight out of the box. One had a squeaky bearing that was fixed in a jiffy with the application of some grease. Out of 9 Farish/Dapol locos I have purchased, 2 have been duds that needed returning immediately and another 2 were less than great runners. The truth is that Farish/Dapol quality and reliability is a perpetual issue on forums such as the NGF whereas the issue of Kato reliability hardly ever comes up. I draw my own conclusions from this.

As pointed out by Agrippa, buying Kato means running North American or Japanese prototype. My railway is mostly North American but I do have a fondness for certain British locomotives and this means Farish/Dapol. I buy the latter with the expectation that most of these will work out of the box, but if they don't, I send them back to the supplier for replacement without hesitation. Certainly, this is a nuisance particularly since I'm living in Australia.

Webbo

I suppose I've been lucky. I have a number of Farrish and Dapol locos, and have only had one issue with either. I have about 10 Kato locos and had only 1 issue, which was with a Swoosh. The issue was that it wouldn't go over code 80 set track points. After I scrapped that layout and went for Kato track, it runs like a dream.

Quote from: Webbo on July 05, 2015, 12:29:56 PM
My experience, Ian, is that out of the 12 Kato locos I have purchased, all have been great runners straight out of the box. One had a squeaky bearing that was fixed in a jiffy with the application of some grease. Out of 9 Farish/Dapol locos I have purchased, 2 have been duds that needed returning immediately and another 2 were less than great runners. The truth is that Farish/Dapol quality and reliability is a perpetual issue on forums such as the NGF whereas the issue of Kato reliability hardly ever comes up. I draw my own conclusions from this.

As pointed out by Agrippa, buying Kato means running North American or Japanese prototype.

Kato also do some European stuff, either under their own brand or as Lemke/Hobbytrain.

I started out in N gauge around a year ago, and in that time seem to have acquired around 80 (!) motive power units (locomotives and multiple units), an eclectic mixture of Japanese, British and German stock. I hasten to add that a large proportion of these were bought 2nd hand and/or as bargains; particularly the Japanese stock is ridiculously cheap when buying locally. I suppose that provides a certain breadth, if not depth, of perspective.

Ironically the first N-gauge locomotive I ever purchased was from Kato (a DE10 Bo-Co diesel) and turned out to be a dud; motor was noisy, bits fell off easily and the lights didn't work. I sent it back (it was a mail-order purchase) and the replacement was fine. Other than that, everything from Kato has worked fine out of the box, including second-hand items, among which was a TGV which must be a couple of decades old.

Of the British locomotives/multiple units I've bought new or as-new (must be around 15 of them), so far the only major problem I've had is a split gear on a GraFar Class 46, which wasn't apparent at the time of purchase. Other than that, touch wood, everything has worked fine so far (despite having been shipped halfway around the world by different methods). I am slightly irritated by the new GraFar 25/2 which makes a mildly annoying "gronk gronk" noise but that problem appears to be endemic to that particular model. I've yet to be disappointed by Dapol; like NeMo mentions the Class 86 is a very nice model (I have 3).

The main "complaint" I have with GraFar/Dapol vs everything else is that they don't handle gradients so well - I originally conceived my small-ish layout working from experience with Japanese motive power, which will pull e.g. a dozen wagons up a 1:20 incline as if it wasn't there (including the aforementioned Kato DE10, which is a tiny little thing); the British ones struggle at best with the same load (presumably due to lack of traction tires).

Quote from: Agrippa on July 05, 2015, 09:06:29 AM

Union Mills produce locos which are well regarded for liability.

I'm quite sure Agrippa meant 'reliability' there.
Another suggestion may be to purchase locos from the N'Porium as I would like to think all our members would sell a good runner such that damage may only be limited to what our wonderful mail system do with it en route. All such purchases would then have been tested just as well as/better than any shop would do.

Oh dear!