Not sure which section to put this in !
A few days ago I bought two Farish Seaside Excursion sets (why two ? that's a story that'll keep for another day ! )

The good news is that I have two very nice sets that seem to be continuing to run very nice after a few days, keep your fingers crossed !
Why do I beseech you to keep fingers crossed ? :-

Well the bad news is that the first two sets had to be returned after just a few days
The first one because the loco persistently derailed and frequently uncoupled its coaches :-
could not complete the oval without at least one but usually two derails when forwards clockwise, slightly better when going anticlockwise in reverse or strangly, anticlockwise forwards, the only way to keep it on track was to place the loco between the two coaches, pushing one - pulling the other, so in the hope that a period of running in like that it may improve  ? ! , , nope after some time of despair it was returned to vendor who diagnosed a misalligned tender axle and a droopy coupling.
After being quizzed on "how long had I run it in" for and "was it on a proper baseboard" he hapilly exchanged the set.
All good so far.

However,
the second set had seemed a little sticky on slow running but eased / improved after running in but was never as smooth on creep as the replaced other set.
Then on the following day it developed a jack-rabbit tendency - could not creep, it woukld move forwards a half wheel turn (approx) and sieze up, requiring the controller to be considerably advanced whereupon it would take off at high rate of knotts !

So, with some trepidation, I decided this also needed returning as there was no sign of it improving nor of it being a brief glitch.
Much consternation in the shop "we have sold lots of these, never had any returned" etc.
They agreed to replace it with less than good grace and informed me that if this happened again a replacement could not be provided and that it would have to be returned to BF for repair under warranty  !

Perhaps if this had been one set needing replacing twice I might understand it.
But it was two sales, both faulty within an acceptance period
Now whatever the consumer rights / wrongs under sale of goods etc acts I am reluctant to buy another loco or set for fear of that being unsatisfactory and having to face that retailer again to have to argue a case

Is he right to be miffed, am I right to be more than a bit miffed, after all it isnt his fault that BF supplied him with faulty goods so his problem should be with BF
and it certainly wasnt my fault that he as agent for BF supplied me with faulty goods.

Grrr,
thanks for reading,
all thoughts about what to do /where to buy next are welcome.

My seaside set started off jumpy at slow speeds but after using for a while now its running OK, but I nearly sent mine back but now I am glad I have not.

I do feel the QC is not upto scratch and maybe this is why the price of Loco's are high but with sets you seem to get a bargain if the Loco's run well.

Yes you were correct to return not up to scratch goods.

It's the retailer's problem, not yours.

Relevant legislation is the Sale of Goods Act 1979:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54

In particular, section 14.

Thanks Geoff & David
yes, interesting thoughts on QC and are we paying for the lack of it
Cheaper to supply 2 out of 4 and charge us double for doing it ourselves instead of a QC at the factory.
Also in one of my readings (I think it was a Trading Standards site) that Warranties are extra and in addition to our rights to the supply of satisfactory goods, not an alternative or replacement for faulty goods until after one has accepted them as satisfactory.

My other problems are :
should I continue to support my local dealer ** ( I had intended soon to get a Princess Coronation and, when they arrive, a Jinty )
and secondly it has removed the pleasure of running the things - instead of turning on to admire the ingenuity of the Farish mechanism I find myself turning on to see if it still works and for how long more ?

** PS these were my first two from him, I had long been looking forward to the arrival of the 4Fs to get started on my Nterprise !!

Oddly the loco in my Seaside Excursion set had to be returned as one of the electrical contacts on the tender drawbar was too short and didn't make proper contact.  Luckily I bought it from my local shop and the loco was swapped with one from another set (after inspection) and that set (I presume) returned to Bachmann.

But I'm sure the few faulty locos that we're all talking about represent a minority of all the sets sold.  After all I got a good loco the second time around.  To get two faulty sets in one go does seem especially unfortunate.

I've not had the best luck with Graham Farish locos recently.  I bought a Black Five that I had for two hours (plus travelling time between shop and home) where the front bogie came adrift just as it came to the end of running in.  It was the last one in the shop so the dealer obtained and fitted a replacement screw.

In the interests of fairness I've had 20 or so Graham Farish locos (or MU power cars) that haven't been faulty, and a similar number from Dapol.

To my mind your 'contract' is with your local dealer in that you paid him to supply goods and he accepted your money. The fact he has supplied shoddy goods (albeit not his fault) still suggests to me it doesn't matter if he supplies you 10 sets and they are all faulty, he is duty bound to replace them with suitably good sets as he has pocketed your dosh, not Farish.
If you purchased a new car, then had it replaced, then that one developed a fault and was replaced, would you accept your dealer telling you that was the last time and that, in future, you must deal with the manufacturer? I don't think so!
We shouldn't be fobbed off by retailers into dealing direct with manufacturers when it's the retailer who has taken our money. By all means send a complaining letter to Farish but I'd pursue the retailer - to the Small Claims Court if necessary.

Quote from: johnlambert on April 11, 2015, 09:58:34 PMTo get two faulty sets in one go does seem especially unfortunate.

In the interests of fairness I've had 20 or so Graham Farish locos (or MU power cars) that haven't been faulty,

Thanks for your statistics John, interesting.
I think there is a joke hiding in there, I'm glad you didnt quote "The Importance of Being Ernest" to "get One is unfortunate, to get Two is downright careless"  LOL 

OK on 20 good ones but you didnt say how many faulty ones you have had in total, at the mo. I am running 50%, but not a sufficiently large sample to be (yet) statistically significant, hmmm where are my chi^2 tables !

Actually I am more miffed with the vendor than BF
We know the price from BF of a satisfactory one, all we need then to know is that we will (eventually?) receive one,
but one does not expect (cue Monte) the Spanish Inquisition, no one , , , (/Python)

I don't buy that many locos, but over the past few years I've had a several (5 that I can immediately recall) which have developed faults when running in - mostly the circuit board being at fault. This has happened with both Dapol and Farish locos. They have been either replaced, repaired or refunded.

Modern models with lights and DCC sockets are all well and good, but frankly I'd rather them without if they can't get the circuitry up to scratch. These are not complicated circuit boards, so it didn't ought to be beyond the wit of man. With models such as the 08 there's no circuitry and consequently much less to go wrong. Or there's the Kato system, where as I understand it the circuit board which comes in non-DCC locos is not much more than a collection of wires, and anyone wanting to fit DCC replaces this with a Kato decoder circuit board.

Quote from: newportnobby on April 11, 2015, 10:03:05 PM
To my mind your 'contract' is with your local dealer ,
he is duty bound to replace them with suitably good sets

By all means send a complaining letter to Farish

Exactly so ! 100% Yes, his beef should be with Farish, not me.
Interesting you say about a letter,
actually I have been thinking that maybe he has problems with Farish ( of no concern to me) and I had further been thinking that he could have a letter from me (to be forwarded to themBF ) expressing my unhapiness that my poor local retailer was having all these terrible problems trying to supply us, his customers, with satisfactory goods,
see the way I am thinking !!!

It does seem that there are far more positive experiences of this loco than otherwise, and mine are definitely in this camp.

I now have four new 4Fs. One is from the Seaside Excursions set, the other three solo locos. All run absolutely superbly, and have done from the first time they were put on the track. Luck of the draw possibly and I am certainly not saying I have never encountered any problems with Farish locos, but I just do not seem to experience the same level of issues that some others seem to.

Roy

Actually, a good upshot is that I now have two 'railway' rooms,
1) my real railway room, aka spare bedroom.
and
2) this room, one of the domestic living rooms, where I do my computing, TV watchind etc&etc and now for good measure, for testing purposes you do understand ? , I have an extra circle of R2 pizza so I dont have to  go into that other room to watch a train going round !!!!

hope you are enjoying your new trains

you could ask the shop to test them while you are there watching?  most shops i have been in have a plank of wood with a test track on.  one actually tested a loco for me without me even asking them to which i thought was good.



cheers,


tim

Quote from: Roy L S on April 11, 2015, 10:53:10 PM
It does seem that there are far more positive experiences of this loco than otherwise,
,
I now have four new 4Fs.

Yes my impression also,
usually on the interweb one hears all the complaints and not so many +ves, but as you say, with this one there are loads more good than bad,
so imagine my surprise, nay sadness, when my first two were duds !
,
4 now is it !!! Well actually, my plan was for an eventual 3, but kinda nipped in da bud for the time being

I have two of the new 4F's both run very nicely but overall the quality of loco's does seem a bit under par. Of the 12 loco's I have bought in the last year, all new, three have had to go back for various faults. A twenty five percent failure rate is pretty dismal.

I cant however say it's just one manufacturer all three where different makes !

Dapol - Class 22 body wobbled like a drunken duck when running.
Farish - Class 70 wouldnt run in one direction and ran intermittanly in the other.
Arnold - Brighton Belle (1969) Faulty lights

Quote from: MalcolmAL on April 11, 2015, 10:18:38 PM

Quote from: johnlambert on April 11, 2015, 09:58:34 PMTo get two faulty sets in one go does seem especially unfortunate.

In the interests of fairness I've had 20 or so Graham Farish locos (or MU power cars) that haven't been faulty,

Thanks for your statistics John, interesting.
I think there is a joke hiding in there, I'm glad you didnt quote "The Importance of Being Ernest" to "get One is unfortunate, to get Two is downright careless"  LOL 

OK on 20 good ones but you didnt say how many faulty ones you have had in total, at the mo. I am running 50%, but not a sufficiently large sample to be (yet) statistically significant, hmmm where are my chi^2 tables !

Actually I am more miffed with the vendor than BF
We know the price from BF of a satisfactory one, all we need then to know is that we will (eventually?) receive one,
but one does not expect (cue Monte) the Spanish Inquisition, no one , , , (/Python)

In total; three faulty Graham Farish locos, there was also a Farish 3MT tank with wheels that weren't round.  So that's a 15% failure rate by my maths.  I don't know if I should count the LMS Coronation Pacific that I didn't buy because of paint defects.  I haven't included a different 3MT tank that locked its motion on the dealer's test track; it was second hand so might have been damaged by a previous owner and not faulty due to poor manufacturing.

And I think I might have had Oscar Wilde's famous quote in mind