Hi All:

Does anyone know where I can find the withdrawal date of chocolate and cream coaches from BR WR SE Wales?

Also - same for suburban non-corridor coaches? (I've seen a lot of footage with maroon ones in use around my period - often a single coach with a Pannier).

And am I right in thinking that private owner wagons are right out for the same place around 1960 - 1965?

And am I right in thinking that... ....in the same place and period you will nevertheless see the occasional brand name like "Esso" or "Birdseye"...?

Thanks for any help! 

BR(W) used Chocolate and Cream until they decided to use Maroon in 1962 - it would have taken a couple of years or so to get the livery out of circulation as coaches came up for repaint.

BR(W) didn't use Chocolate and Cream for all coaches, only those for specified/named services - I would have thought that non-corridor suburbans would have been in Crimson or unlined Maroon, unless any BR(W) expert can say otherwise...

PO wagons essentially disappeared in WWII when they were 'called up' into general service. Coal-carrying PO wagons would have become obsolete on the formation of the National Coal Board on the nationalisation of the coal industry in 1948, most others on the railway nationalisation in the same year. Specialised wagons for products such as fuel, etc, or that require special handling would have remained branded, even if they weren't PO wagons.

Many PO coal/mineral wagons were never repainted and retained most or all of their original livery (with the addition of BR-style identifying marks with the running number, tonnage etc.) well into nationalisation - though with the livery getting increasingly worn, faded and grimy over the years and further obscured when damaged/rotten planks were replaced with new unpainted or grey ones.
There were certainly quite a few identifiable PO wagons around in the late '40s and early-mid '50s, but I would imagine by the '60s most would have gone as the old wooden planked wagons were replaced by new steel ones -

NC suburbans went pretty early, and many got turned into car transporters.

Chocolate & Cream is still around however, but only on specials 

Agree with most of the above, as far as I am aware the non corridor stock in the early 60's BR days be maroon. You mentioned "Esso and Birds Eye" certainly petrol tank wagons were branded as (I seem to recall) that the tank bodies were owned by the oil companies. As for Birds Eye I have seen pictures of a train of their branded containers (as made by Farish) on flat wagons leaving Great Yarmouth in the mid 60's.

Jerry

Hi All:



Many thanks for the feedback! 

I can see some chocolate and cream corridor and some maroon non-corridor stock coming down my way as soon as ministry funding permits.   

I am working with my own childhood memories + photos of the period + footage of the period. One thing I will say about documentary footage, both professional and amateur, is that it is a fantastic source of information for stock, locos, track appearance, procedures etc.

Just to confirm what others have said, WR chocolate and cream stock was only introduced for named expresses. Non-corridor stock was not painted in this livery (it wore crimson and later maroon liveries). Most of the stock was Mk1 vehicles but there were a handful of ex-GWR vehicles (re)painted in chocolate and cream. These were mostly catering vehicles as the WR did not receive any Mk1 restaurant cars for quite a while. A handful of Hawksworth slip coaches also received it.

The chocolate and cream sets were broken up in 1962 although the livery could still be seen for a few years (normally mixed in with other vehicles). I do not have an exact date for the last repaint. For a particular area (South Wales in your case), it would not have been so much a cut-off as a gradual disappearing.

I remember mixed rake of maroon, blue/grey and chocolate/cream in late 1966/early 1967.

Dodger