Out of interest, were the manufacturers who supplied the locomotives you had problems with,  US, UK, Japanese or Continental in origin?

Thanks.

Quote from: austinbob on January 03, 2015, 09:01:58 PM

The downside is – in my experience (not every loco but too high a percentage!)
1.   Badly adjusted pickups.
2.   Poor slow running in some instances, particularly kettles, although some are very good.
3.   Loose NEM couplings.
4.   Intermittent/jerky operation.
5.   Noisy operation
6.   Badly adjusted quartering on kettles
7.   Valve gear and link motions locking/falling apart – Kettles
8.   Eccentric wheel sets – mostly diesels.
9.   Lack of complete kits for locos and rolling stock – the range for 4mm is very extensive.

In general inadequate quality in around 50% of the locos I have purchases.

But I have made the other decision and I am selling up and moving to OO. (Two other factors, I made 'N' layout too wide 1100mm and have problems reaching other side also now haw a larger area to set up new layout)

But its not just the Loco's and rolling stock but the track too. (point motor alignment for frog polarity changes, flange problems on some point's, etc)

Quote from: Komata on January 04, 2015, 01:22:37 AM
Out of interest, were the manufacturers who supplied the locomotives you had problems with,  US, UK, Japanese or Continental in origin?

Thanks.

All Farish and Dapol Komata

Quote from: Tom@Crewe on January 04, 2015, 08:11:35 AM

Quote from: austinbob on January 03, 2015, 09:01:58 PM

The downside is – in my experience (not every loco but too high a percentage!)
1.   Badly adjusted pickups.
2.   Poor slow running in some instances, particularly kettles, although some are very good.
3.   Loose NEM couplings.
4.   Intermittent/jerky operation.
5.   Noisy operation
6.   Badly adjusted quartering on kettles
7.   Valve gear and link motions locking/falling apart – Kettles
8.   Eccentric wheel sets – mostly diesels.
9.   Lack of complete kits for locos and rolling stock – the range for 4mm is very extensive.

In general inadequate quality in around 50% of the locos I have purchases.

But I have made the other decision and I am selling up and moving to OO. (Two other factors, I made 'N' layout too wide 1100mm and have problems reaching other side also now haw a larger area to set up new layout)

But its not just the Loco's and rolling stock but the track too. (point motor alignment for frog polarity changes, flange problems on some point's, etc)

For one minute dont expect 00 to be any different with regards to locomotives. In this day and age where we demand more and finer detail the valve gear still has a tendency to twist,buckle and lock up. Resulting in costly repairs if spares are available.  Take hornby for instance.  Their availability of spares leaves questions.  They would rather you by a new model than repair. 

There are pros and cons to all gauges they all have there faults. Even kit building isnt without faults. Some companies kits are better than others. Its all a personal preference and cost.

Apart from an 00 gauge train set when I was knee high to a grasshopper, my N gauge foray started when I was a (supposed) adult and I've never looked back
I've never managed to afford a residence which gives me the space I dream of so N was naturally the way to go. Early models were a bit clunky and, to the purists, probably way out of spec detail wise but, hey, if it looked a bit like an 8F it was an 8F to me.
It's true more recent models have superb detailing and it seems a lottery if you get a good 'un or a lemon but, sadly, I can't see Farish/Dapol amending their ways. Hopefully we'll see a lot of difference with DJM owing to the promised QC checks, and the recent entry of Hornby (Arnold) into the fray can only be a good thing.
I thank Bob for his positive comments about this forum because, not only is it a great place for us all to get together and have a 'chinwag' and a bit of banter, but there is great advice to be had and the NGF is proven to save you money, time and a lot of heartache.
Happy N Gauging!

Totally agree. You brought back memories of me time at Wigan show when you said 00 looks like toys. 

George

Quote from: Bealman on January 04, 2015, 11:47:28 AM
Totally agree. You brought back memories of me time at Wigan show when you said 00 looks like toys. 

George

The thing that always amazes me, after a couple of years living with N gauge, is that when I look at 4mm scale stuff now it seems HUGE!!

Speaking as someone who dabbles in a range of scales...

10 - 15 years ago, modellers in larger scales could justifiably look down on much of what was available in N gauge as 'crude' and 'unreliable' however in that period great steps forward have been made in the accuracy of N gauge models, the level of detail, and the running characteristics.

The OP is not the first occasion I have heard frustrations from someone changing from a larger scale to N. As a consequence of their smaller size N gauge models are inevitably more fragile and more susceptible to damage either in transit or through handling - there is not a lot that can be done about that other than undoing the improvements in detail.

There are lessons to be learnt by modelers changing scales to N that they need to handle the models more carefully and they need to take more care in laying track etc because of the finer tolerances. As a collective, we need to promote the positives of the scale but also accept that there are things you can get 'get away with' in larger scales you can't do in N and ensure new recruits to the scale understand that.

I've had locos with all of the problems mentioned in the first post. Thankfully not all on one loco at once! 

I'll continue to model in N because it really appeals to me and either return faulty locos or try and sort out running problems myself.

Posts complaining about quality control don't bother at all me as they act as unbiased reviews and help me decide which locos to buy. Too many negative posts about a particular loco and I will think twice about buying one.

I agree with PLDs points about changing scales, N gauge models and track need to be handled with care.

Quote from: silly moo on January 04, 2015, 01:39:01 PM
I agree with PLDs points about changing scales, N gauge models and track need to be handled with care.

I agree also that N gauge models are delicate and need to be handled with care - that pretty much goes without saying.
Most of the problems I've had, and many others who have posted on this issue, have been straight out of the box. Also all the problems I listed in my original post, apart from those related to valve gear and quartering, would be unlikely to be caused by poor handling.
I feel sorry for the youngsters who want to take up the hobby of N gauge modelling who may also receive a dud and are put off the hobby as a result.

I've damaged locos just getting them out of the box!

To throw in a couple of pence.....

Last year I bought three 00 kettles - 2 Bachmann (7F & 3F) and 1 Hornby (Mallard).

All three were cosmetically and mechanically perfect, no fettling required (bought new, online untested).

To date I have never bought a single N kettle that has been perfect out of the box (10 different model types). I only own 3 of them (J39, A1 and WD), all of which needed some form of tweaking (J39 chassis off square causing crabbing, A1 valve gear bent causing crabbing, WD needed draw bar loosening as it retained a kink when exiting curves)

Most N diesels have been right bar the odd issue.

If Farish could solve the quatering issues I'd have 10+ kettles now, which is a shame IMO as some of them look fantastic.

Quote from: Bealman on January 04, 2015, 03:21:40 PM
I've damaged locos just getting them out of the box!

Yeah, I've got a BachFar Deltic too. It lives on the layout for safety's sake.

But seriously, one of my first OO locomotives was a Mainline Standard Class 4MT (or 5MT, I can never remember) 4-6-0 which survived my inexpert junior hands pretty well (I remember at least one layout -> floor fall which took out one of the cab window struts but otherwise it was fine; I'll dig it out and see if it still runs). I acquired the Farish 5MT which is pretty damn similar and my first N-steamer and I'm like "OMG this comes out of its box on special occasions and gets run very carefully". 'Tis a mighty delicate thing which should probably not be sold to anyone under the age of 28.

Since my return to the hobby I have to say the quality and appearance of dapol and farish n gauge diesels that are my era have been generally very good....I think a lot of running problems are caused by unevenly laid track where n gauge is definitely less tolerant of poor baseboard joints or dips and bumps...if I had to start my layout again I would have been even more ocd with the base !. I also would pay more for my locos if the running quality was improved as I think the body details are now excellent and more focus is needed on the mechanics ! Being able to run longer rakes than larger scales is the main attraction to n

austinbob

Thanks for the reply; the problem being with 'quality control' rather than with the scale per se'?  Before you 'break-up' what you have made, have you given serious consideration to modelling 'off shore' (US, Japan, Europe); if only because the equipment from these sources tends to be a lot more reliable than the 'Home' products you are working with?

And if that is not an alternative, have you even considered a foray into Narrow Gauge (I know, heresies and all that); specifically .009? If you followed that route, it would mean you could still use the same tracks, just altering the bodies etc. to fit the new scale.  Lots of 'in scale support' available BTW...

Just some thoughts...