Hi All

I have been sorting through all my stock boxes tonight and I notice that I was paying about £11 for a MK1 coach 18 years ago!

Locos were around £70 for a steamer

That was a lot of money nearly 20 years ago

Prices may be going up but still a lot better value than the distant past!

When I started N in 1997 I recall buying a brand new Farish Duchess for £54.

Current price (of a much superior new tooled model) is £127.

We can debate I guess the merits of pricing (and model quality) if we wish, but the alarming thing I read on RMWeb is that prices are slated to go up 20% per yer for several years...

Cheers,
Alan

Hi Alan

Labour costs are due to increase 20% year on year for the next 3-4 years in China, but that does not mean end product prices will rise 20% (that will depend on how labour intensive particular models are ie buy your Polybulks now!).

Cheers, Mike

Quote from: Dr Al on January 03, 2015, 01:09:33 AMthe alarming thing I read on RMWeb is that prices are slated to go up 20% per yer for several years...

Me alarmed too ! I saw that as well, I dont think any "authority" was ref.ed or quoted
I will have to go back and look.

Mind-u if DJM can maintain his price predictions it will widen a space for him ?

Quote from: red_death on January 03, 2015, 01:18:54 AM
in China,

Good points, I took the RMWeb post to be GF specific, implying end buyer cost,
so yes, we'd all better take a deep breath and think on't

Quote from: red_death on January 03, 2015, 01:18:54 AM
Hi Alan

Labour costs are due to increase 20% year on year for the next 3-4 years in China, but that does not mean end product prices will rise 20% (that will depend on how labour intensive particular models are ie buy your Polybulks now!).

Cheers, Mike

Ooops, yes. Still will end up with continuing price rises I guess... 

I wonder at what point they'll start thinking of moving elsewhere from China. Maybe that's a long way off, but I wonder.

Cheers,
Alan

>> Labour costs are due to increase 20%

'due to' or 'predicted to' ?
'Due to' implies some inevitability, I think it is more a prediction by the financial talking heads.
There is already significant slow down in the China bubble and when push come to shove what may be wished for in financial circles may not come to pass. ( which will be sad for the peoples of China)

>> "continuing price rises I guess"
I guess, fact of life along with taxes and death
Perhaps we should not panic just yet ? !

Funny how we can look in a draw and find a 15-20 year old loco that still runs, I don't care what I pay for a decent running reliable loco but sometimes I feel as though I have been robbed 

'Used to be'? methinks a joke no?

My Local Model Shop will be thrilled to hear that, especially as their 'old' stock still carries prices even now that only Croesus in all his magnificence could afford...

Needless to say they are not well patronised by the local N-scale fraternity.

Quote from: MalcolmAL on January 03, 2015, 02:10:59 AM
>> Labour costs are due to increase 20%

'due to' or 'predicted to' ?
'Due to' implies some inevitability, I think it is more a prediction by the financial talking heads.
There is already significant slow down in the China bubble and when push come to shove what may be wished for in financial circles may not come to pass. ( which will be sad for the peoples of China)

>> "continuing price rises I guess"
I guess, fact of life along with taxes and death
Perhaps we should not panic just yet ? !

The compulsory wage rises have been set by the government so it's fact and not a prediction. Whether as many say it will actually be of benefit to many workers is another matter if jobs are lost as a result.

Izzy

when I was six I was always send to buy bread and she only gave me 25 p, I remember that my Dad earned 25 quit a week. Guys the past is dead

My first brand new G/F Panier cost me £3-7s -6  and it's still running at least once a week at least 2 new locos I've had last year have been sent back after a week or two . A 153 was replaced 4 times before I got one that worked many thanks to KERNOW Models  so although the detail has gone up along with the prices the reliability has not I also have some Minitrix Warships over 30 years old and still going strong .
I Personaly wouldn't mind paying the higher prices if the reliability was as Good as it used to be but today's models have something the old ones didn't ,that is built in obsolescents, now it's a lottery as to wether you get a good loco or a duffer .I would love some of the Dapol steam Locos they look superb but how long will they last and how many coaches will they pull I can't afford to gamble my pension so will have to resist unless I find a real bargain that's tried and tested by someone .
Bob

I really wonder what kind of profits GF are making per loco, surely it must be well over 50% so realistically if Kato can pass fare prices for there Locomotives why can not the likes of GF.

I really need to dig up some actual figures, but Kato has the luxury of a larger market (twice the population of the UK, leaving out export markets) where N-gauge is dominant (HO is a minority for apparently very rich people, if the prices are anything to go by). They have a mighty nice HQ building, and are just one player in the market (there's also Tomix, the other "mass-market" producer, as well as slightly more niche producers like MicroAce, GreenMax and Modemo).

Nevertheless I'm still at a loss to explain the quality difference - I've picked up one or two Japanese clunkers (mainly because I shop at the bargain basement end of the store ), but on the whole even older stuff - including the 20+ year old sub-GPB10 Tomix loco I picked up from the "junk" bin - outperforms the British stuff I have. Some of it is made in China too.

I think one needs to be careful of looking back through rose coloured spectacles.

The Lima N models were truly dire both in terms of running and pretty much everything else. Compare the Lima N Fowler 0-6-0 (or "Foul up" as I used to call mine) with the new Farish. Back in the day (1977-80) they cost about £8 a pop, how that extrapolates in today's money I don't know but probably not far off the RRP of the new Farish model - comparison none.

Farish models up until the "new" chassis in about 1976 were (with the exception of the very first Pannier) a disaster - remember split gears? Con rods  dropping on the track? Noisy mechanisms? They had the lot!

To have a true quality model cost a lot more. I bought my first Peco Jubilee in (I think) 1978 from the Model Shop in Harrow. I traded in several existing locos. The price was a (then) eye watering £26.80 - in today's money probably well over £200. I never regretted it. That one loco looked and ran so well it was worth more than having several cheaper models on my layout.

Minitrix locos were nearly as much and while they ran well they were pretty much all compromised appearance wise to fit continental chassis.

My point? Today's models in comparison to those days are in real terms no more expensive even now and in most cases a lot cheaper. The problem is that cheap Chinese production has throughout the "noughties" given us highly detailed products at incredibly cheap prices which has become an expectation and that is what is now changing.

My final illustration of this (and one I have used before) is to consider what was to be nearly the last Poole model (I think the King was later?) the A4. In 1998/9 the retail price for it was £89.95 - 16 years ago. Allowing for this the new "Duchess" at £149.95 RRP with all it's features to me at least suddenly looks incredible value. Even comparing discounted prices this holds true (A4 £69.95, Duchess £127 and 16 years in between!).

Roy