My view has always been that there will always be faulty models. Everything we buy has a mortaility rate, its just question of what it is. Yes we have bad build quality but when you consider it the engineering involves and sometimes quite impressed that as many of them work as they do. I can say ive had bad Dapol models and bad Farish models but the worst was a 37408 from back in the Poole days which went back 6 times before i got a good one but that was a rare case. One thing i will say is that the older ones were easier to repair if they did break down. The current ones are far more difficult to get going and its also alot more difficult to get spare parts.

Richard

OK....

Time to wrap this one up.

I know that this was not a good poll ( but a jolly good thread) but the interesting thing for me is that ...

Farish Locos - far more thought they were ok than did not (approx 30% of vote to 5%)
Dapol Locos - almost the same amount of the vote thought they were good and bad (25% good to 22% bad)

Small sample I know!! (64 votes total) but could there be a message here?

Any statisticians out there who thing there is any significance in this or is it just a load of nonsense

Bob Austin

Statistically speaking I would not give this too much weight. You have a small sample size and your sample is self-selecting.

Always remember though that statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is not nearly as interesting as what they conceal. 

i personally will not be grtting another farish steam loco

Quote from: Dave95979 on October 14, 2014, 05:37:30 PM
i personally will not be grtting another farish steam loco

Why's that then Dave - what are your experiences with Farish and Dapol

Bob Austin

I don't have any if the newer tooled Chinese a Farish models (just one or two from China but with the old Poole tooling).

How are the newer steam locos?

Dan

well i am probably the unlucky one its just i don't want to spend over a hundred pound on a loco and the have to fettle it to get it to run rite i bought a fairburn that had a rely bad wobble so i took that back and got another one that wobbled but not to bad so i kept that one then i got a black 5 which i needed to take apart and re do the pickups as half of them were not making contact with the wheel at all
on the other hand i have no trouble with my deltic or 04 shunter
i will give union mills and dapol a try
as i am just starting out in n gauge it is all a bit disheartning felt like giving up before i spend to much on it all

Quote from: Dave95979 on October 14, 2014, 06:17:26 PM
well i am probably the unlucky one its just i don't want to spend over a hundred pound on a loco and the have to fettle it to get it to run rite i bought a fairburn that had a rely bad wobble so i took that back and got another one that wobbled but not to bad so i kept that one then i got a black 5 which i needed to take apart and re do the pickups as half of them were not making contact with the wheel at all
on the other hand i have no trouble with my deltic or 04 shunter
i will give union mills and dapol a try
as i am just starting out in n gauge it is all a bit disheartning felt like giving up before i spend to much on it all

I'm not sure you are unlucky Dave

I've had three brand new Farish steam locos and all have had problems out of the box.

A 4MT had problems with sticking valve gear that eventually broke - replaced under warranty.
A 5MT had a missing coupling - fixed by a very good retailer (Alton Models in Alton Hampshire)
A 4F with noisy motor and poor slow speed running - decided to live with it.

I have a Farish Midland Pullman and Class 108 DMU which were great.

I have had a few Dapol locos - all run fine, but one or two are rather noisy.

As mentioned elsewhere in this thread I think locos should run perfectly out of the box or perhaps after the running in period. - This does not always seem to be the case.

I don't have any Union Mills locos but they do seem to have a good reputation for running and reliability. Not so keen on the rather clunky detail though.

Bob Austin

Just as a counterpoint to previous posts I currently have 27 Farish steam locos only one of which was returned for replacement (a 4F that wouldn't budge). I'm well pleased with all of them but over the moon with the latest offerings such as the B1, WD, J39, Fairburn, Jinty and Ivatt Mickey Mouse.
I appreciate some issues were experienced with the Fairburn but my one and only Peco steamer (22xx) was replaced and the replacement is extremely noisy so I'm not bashing Farish - far from it.

For comparison I'd site a mate of mine who runs nothing but Fleischmann, Arnold, Trix and Roco locos. Every one of them ran perfectly out of the box, and has continued to do so while he's had them, and some are getting on for 20 year old now. Of course they are significantly more expensive...

Farish and Dapol have made great leaps forward recently, but when I compare my steamers with his German models they've got some way to go yet.

On the subject of Union Mills locos. Yes they do have a very good reputation, but it's worth noting that Colin avoids outside cylinder locos with complex valve gear. That's the area that seems to cause most problems with Farish or Dapol locos in my experience.

Cheers
Dave

Quote from: Pengi on June 15, 2014, 12:38:10 PMMy answer is that Kato gives the most reliable product on average - and by a long margin

Apologies for quoting such an old post, but random anecdote: the first N-gauge locomotive I ever purchased was a Kato one (new, ordered and received in Japan). The couplings and guard rails came off at the merest touch, the lights didn't work and the engine was all growly. Being new to this I initially assumed it was either normal or due to my cackhandendness, but evidently it was a dud. Sent it back and the replacement was fine.

Quote from: DCCDave on October 14, 2014, 10:06:31 PM
For comparison I'd site a mate of mine who runs nothing but Fleischmann, Arnold, Trix and Roco locos. Every one of them ran perfectly out of the box, and has continued to do so while he's had them, and some are getting on for 20 year old now. Of course they are significantly more expensive...

Farish and Dapol have made great leaps forward recently, but when I compare my steamers with his German models they've got some way to go yet.

On the subject of Union Mills locos. Yes they do have a very good reputation, but it's worth noting that Colin avoids outside cylinder locos with complex valve gear. That's the area that seems to cause most problems with Farish or Dapol locos in my experience.

Cheers
Dave

Interesting post, if German makers can do it , why can't British makers do it, though they do it in the far east , not sure about German makers. But UM do it , with a restricted range. do one thing and do it
well.

I think we've never had it so good. The models we get now are light years ahead of anything we've had in the past, and certainly at least the match of continental models and I'd contend in a lot of cases better - coreless motors, ultra fine profile wheels, a wealth of separate detail parts and all at a price much less an equivalent sized continental prototype, which often doesn't have these features.

Faults are so often quality control - e.g. poorly centred moulding for axle insulators (= wobbly Fairburns), pickups not bent to correct angle to ensure good wheel contact (Black 5s etc). Both Dapol and Farish have reached a stage of mature designs that use common motors and other components and this is definitely seen in the running.

Dare I say (given I've repaired quite a few in this category) that some complaints too are unwarranted as the locos have been mishandled (be gentle with them folks, take care of them!!!!!!!!) or are running on poor quality trackwork. Some track joins I've seen would make Jonathan Edwards baulk, yet we expect our poor black 5 to deal with them effortlessly  ? It pays huge dividends to go over all turnouts with a fine toothcomb and check for bumps, kinks and conductivity before installing, and planning expansion gaps carefully so that they are staggered and small.

There will always be problems. There will always be failures. There will be some that are just a poor design. It's always a pain if you get a dud, but there are plenty of good ones out there. This is just the nature of things, but I think we're at a time where what is available and it's quality has never been so good  .

Cheers,
Alan

Quote from: Dr Al on October 15, 2014, 09:17:05 AM
Faults are so often quality control - e.g. poorly centred moulding for axle insulators (= wobbly Fairburns), pickups not bent to correct angle to ensure good wheel contact (Black 5s etc). Both Dapol and Farish have reached a stage of mature designs that use common motors and other components and this is definitely seen in the running.

I think you're right Al, and I suspect that a large slice of the additional cost of 'German' locomotives goes towards the cost of QC, it seems to me that the checking rate must be higher for these models to have a lower 'dodgy' on arrival ratio. Be interesting to see some figures to compare (yeah OK I'll dream on)

Cheers
Dave

Quote from: DCCDave on October 15, 2014, 10:26:47 AM
I think you're right Al, and I suspect that a large slice of the additional cost of 'German' locomotives goes towards the cost of QC, it seems to me that the checking rate must be higher for these models to have a lower 'dodgy' on arrival ratio. Be interesting to see some figures to compare (yeah OK I'll dream on)

It will be interesting to see what happens when the first DJM products hit the market - Dave is promising that all models will be checked prior to dispatch - 100% QC? This should certainly mean that he should expect few failures out of the box, and maybe make other manufacturers take note, but we'll see how it pans out.

Cheers,
Alan