Private Owner Wagons - Facts / Fantasy

My layout is Late Crest, Crewe and surrounding area (Chester, Northwich etc.) I do ave some Private Owner wagons and very colourful they are too, at the moment I am justifying my stock, Having sold on LMS, NE, GWR and wrong era wagons.

Now I am thinking about the Private Owner wagons. Now some stock - United and Express Milk Tankers, Whitbreads I think may have been National and trundled through Crewe. Or did they?

I have some others for example 'Ward & Son, Tunbridge Wells' and 'Charles Dunsdon, Slough' If real how were they used, Just locally?

And some I don't even know if they are real or if they were just promotional model wagons!

I look at this picture and ask where are all the Private Wagons (yes I know one picture does not tell the whole story!)

Just flicking through the Farish Catalogue and it shows Private Wagons as era 3 so all wrong era anyway.

I would still like more info....

They got nationalised IIRC ... but your image seems years later ... looking at the clothes people are wearing, I'd say 70s ?

Quote from: MikeDunn on September 22, 2014, 07:52:52 PM
They got nationalised IIRC ... but your image seems years later ... looking at the clothes people are wearing, I'd say 70s ?

With the mix of rolling stock it looks like it could be Keighley and Worth Valley or a similar preserved line in the 70s. I remember being able to walk through the sheds there in the 70s like you can at Didcot or the Bluebell railway nowadays.

Carnforth 4th August 1968

A bit more digging and another blow, I was planning a Salt works for industry and purchased 8 salt 7 plank wagons with roof kits. now find they would be gone by 1960's

Quote from: Tom@Crewe on September 22, 2014, 06:20:03 PM
I look at this picture and ask where are all the Private Wagons (yes I know one picture does not tell the whole story!)

As MikeDunn says above, a lot of them were taken into British Railways stock in 1948, in particular those used by industries that were nationalised, such as coal. A lot of the classic wooden 4-wheel wagons were completely unsuited to a modern high-speed railway, so ended up being scrapped within a few years anyway. However, there were some notable exceptions, in particular oil tankers, which remained in private ownership. Milk was another anomaly, but if I recall correctly, while the milk tanks were privately-owned, the chassis they were running on belong to British Railways!

It's also worth noting that private owner wagons became increasingly widespread again during the late 70s. By now BR had recognised that companies that owned their railway wagons were more likely to retain the services of BR instead of switching to road hauliers. So we start seeing things like the Foster Yeoman-owned PGA hoppers appearing in the early 70s.

Cheers, NeMo

If you're thinking milk tankers then I'd suggest 6 wheeled versions as the older 4 wheeled had a tendency to derail at speed and so were limited to 45-50mph if I remember correctly.
Thus I sold all my 4 wheeled Peco ones and bought the Dapol 6 wheeled.

The traditional private owner coal wagons were taken into Government control at the start of WW2 and put in a common pool so would appear anywhere regardless of the location painted on the side.  Being wartime, repairs were done only when essential so the private owner colours would gradually fade out or be missing entirely where planks had been replaced.  The survivors found their way into BR stock in 1948 as mentioned above. 

Milk tanks were I think privately owned until their demise in the early 70s (?), or at least the tanks were but I think the railway owned the chassis.  Oil tanks have never been owned by the railway operator, at least until EWS bought some a few years back. 

Just add a little to Edwin's reply.

David Larkin has written a number of articles and books on the subject of British Railway Wagons including those absorbed when the railways were nationalised.

There was a good series of articles written by him in the BRM during the early part of 2012.

Essentially, they were pooled or non pooled and apart from ongoing repairs, BR did nothing to maintain the livery. I think by the 60's most of the former absorbed PO wagons would have been in pretty poor shape.

I enjoyed the photograph of Carnforth with people wandering around near an operating yard.  With today's rules and regulations I guess it wouldn't happen.

Kind regards

Geoff

A "good" site to look at if you have a few hours to spare. 

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/

Quote from: Chatty on September 23, 2014, 01:26:01 AM
I enjoyed the photograph of Carnforth with people wandering around near an operating yard.

There's a young woman in a pink dress and white boots on the right hand side of the photo - real practical clothing for a steam railway yard!

Quote from: Tom@Crewe on September 22, 2014, 06:20:03 PM
I look at this picture and ask where are all the Private Wagons (yes I know one picture does not tell the whole story!)

Launch the image into full-screen; track the cab of the second red engine; move up.  I think these are some remnants ...  mainly 7-plank, some 4-plank.

Quote from: MikeDunn on September 23, 2014, 08:21:21 PM
Launch the image into full-screen; track the cab of the second red engine

Quote from: d-a-n
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There's a young woman in a pink dress and white boots on the right hand side of the photo - real practical clothing for a steam railway yard!

I am still looking at the bird in the white boots I am sure she must have visted Didcot shed as well...Memories