Just been reading a thread on couplings and saw a post which said that H&M controllers were unsuitable for N gauge as it would "fry their little motors".  This made me check my controllers  as I thought they were H&M. Thankfully they were not, they are Gaugemaster. However the thread gave me cause for thought and raised two questions.
1: are Gaugemaster ok?
2: When I was at school we were taught that the power (wattage) through a circuit  depended on the voltage and resistance in accordance with the formula W= V/R. So if an H&M controller gives 12 volts the same as any other controller the power to a loco is dependent on the resistance of the locomotive so how can it cause damage.

I think you'll find it's the half wave rectification that does the damage also the feedback controllers can do the same they can even cause the lights on modern Locos to blow I'm not an expert so I don't know the technical side of things ,Perhaps someone else can fill us all in with a definitive answer to this please?
Bob

There are almost as many different types of controller as there are modellers!

Some regulate the output in different ways some of which are cruder and less predictable than others, then there are feedback types to consider (avoid).

Asking if a Gaugemaster controller is Ok is like asking if a ford vehicle is ok. They make a vast range so there isn't one answer. It depends whether you have a Transit van, a Fiesta or a model T...

Thanks for the replies so far. My controllers are fairly basic ones with no "frills". Both are double output, one is a complete unit, the other a panel mounted version which requires 16V a.c input. All consist on a knob to vary the output & a three position switch giving forward/reverse.

Quote from: steve836 on September 17, 2014, 12:45:41 PM
accordance with the formula W= V/R.

A minor correction ( of no consequence to this discussion) :-
W=(V^2)/R
ie. V squared divided by R
or another way, W=V x I

I have a Gaugemaster twin boxed controller with the 'brake/acceleration' simulation mentioned by Only Me and it is a worse than useless feature as you cannot control where the loco will stop - not good if you have a terminus

Quote from: MalcolmAL on September 17, 2014, 01:45:39 PM

Quote from: steve836 on September 17, 2014, 12:45:41 PM
accordance with the formula W= V/R.

A minor correction ( of no consequence to this discussion) :-
W=(V^2)/R
ie. V squared divided by R
or another way, W=V x I

You're right , I was thinking A=V/R  My excuse is it's a very long time since I was at school.

Hi Guys,

I use KPC and AMR controllers on Bridgebury. the KPC are switchable feedback on or off.

I tried one of the new farish 08's (which I think has a coreless motor) and with feedback on even applying a small amount of power produced an ever increasing speed - funny but not useful. With feedback off it was fine.

I dont generally use feedback with any loco and find the control action (of either controllers to be fine). Also in use is a AGW PE144 which has a rough DC output and again produces good results.

The thing to watch for is the half wave switch - if you have it just dont use it on N. Lots of motor heating followed by smoke.

Regards
Russ

Hi all,

I'm intriged by some of the responses with regard to feedback controllers and coreless motors - does this also cause problems if using a DCC system with feedback? (appologies if this is going slightly off-topic)

DCC systems don't have feedback, not in the mechanical sense that DC does anyway

Back EMF in DCC is solely a decoder-programming function, the chip just adjusts the power sent to the motor dependent on the conditions


Paul

So to sum up :-
If you have a basic "no-frills " controller that's ok. If you have feedback don't use it! If you have an electronic controller with brake simulation etc. thats a no-no.If you have dcc thats ok.
Is that about it?

I use plain simple Gaugemaster W units on Southbridge. A few people have asked if it's DCC which tells me I must be doing something right.

Simulator units are designed to get you to "drive" the loco like the real thing. If you just shut the regulator the loco will coast unless you apply the brake. To enjoy it properly you need a lot of space but it can work in the right circumstances.

Yes, the simulation controllers will be great on a mainline 'cruise into station" situation. I have such a controller on my DC layout, but I have installed at the country terminus section!!! As NewportNobby says, NOT NECESSARY!!!

However, I must admit, on the odd times I have operated the thing in "inertia" mode (you can switch it in and out), I must admit it is quite satisfying to see a train pull slowly away and accelerate, and then coast to a stop. On a mainline roundy roundy, it could probably be quite a lot of fun.

Regarding controllers, I will say what I've said before (this applies only to DC analog layouts)....

I regard smoothed 12V DC as the standard input. What I put in between that and the track is the controller, which I decide upon... bought or homemade.

Quote from: RussellH on September 17, 2014, 06:23:56 PM

Also in use is a AGW PE144 which has a rough DC output and again produces good results.

Hi, I've just found one of these controllers in my garage, part of an old set of my fathers, but can't find the wires to connect to the track. Any idea, as you have one, what the plugs(?) are for the outputs of the controller? Trying to see if I can buy these from somewhere but not sure what I'm looking for.

Thanks

Gary

Quote from: RussellH on September 17, 2014, 06:23:56 PM
I tried one of the new farish 08's (which I think has a coreless motor)

It doesn't have a coreless motor - just the standard 3 pole can.

One of my controllers is a Gaugemaster WS, and the simulation feature does work quite well - you need to 'drive' the loco much more, anticipating the reaction to inputs. The braking is quite nice as you can leave the main control knob set at the running speed, and brake into a stop. Removing the brake, the loco will slowly accelerate back up to the initial running speed with no further operator intervention.

Cheers,
Alan