Quote from: Only Me on August 06, 2014, 11:24:58 AM
Wow if you collect Poole built locos I've got loads of them which I have no use for that I purchased when I first got into the hobby!!......  I would much prefer a Dapol or Bachmann detailed model than one of the old poole versions that are more akin to a box on slightly dubious closeish chassis...

Stick 'em on fleabay or offer them on the N'porium!

Dan

Quote from: DesertHound on August 06, 2014, 11:18:53 AM
Ultimately though, if someone wants to "cage their bird" then that's their prerogative isn't it?

Of course it is!
I didn't say it was wrong; but that I think it would be a shame.

No offence taken.

I am currently buying new stuff and my drawers full of old Poole stuff will probably never again see the light of day. When I cark it they'll be me daughters problem. 

George

Quote from: FeelixTC on August 06, 2014, 11:32:23 AM

Quote from: DesertHound on August 06, 2014, 11:18:53 AM
Ultimately though, if someone wants to "cage their bird" then that's their prerogative isn't it?

Of course it is!
I didn't say it was wrong; but that I think it would be a shame.

Sorry Felix, I wasn't having a pop and the rhetorical question wasn't directed solely at you. Although I did use your "cage the bird" analogy so I can see it came across that way.

I agree, it would be a shame. I have my Poole built stock running most days, indeed I think running them is likely to keep them in better condition than not running them. They were built to be run after all - I have one of my Special Edition's running as we speak!

I sense a slight undertone in some of the replies to my discussion topic. It really was meant as a genuine question. I'll be the first to stand up and say run your locos, enjoy them. To me I don't see the point of having them otherwise (but like we said, each to their own huh?)

I'm someone who is genuinely interested in Poole built stock and pretty much Poole built stock only. I'm interested in the history of the company, the manufacturing techniques, the mechanisms, the lot. This also includes the desirability, or otherwise, of Poole stock in the future. I don't have a crystal ball and couldn't tell you either way whether the prices will go up or down. It won't be the playstation generation collecting them, that's for sure!

cheers

Dan

None taken 

As a (really clumsy) analogy:

When I was a wee lad, I got a James Bond DB5 toy car. Not the big Corgi one, with the rear bullet-proof screen and the revolving number plates, it was the smaller (read: cheaper) 'Matchbox' (I think) version, me mam was poor.
Still, this version did have the ejector seat, with the wee plastic villain, that you could eject by pushing a button.
Ever the practical one, me mam said: "I'll take that villain and keep it safe; you'll lose it"

That *was* the moment I 'lost it'. Irony was that I still had the villain, long after I'd lost the car.

My 'argument' here is that stuff like this is for 'playing with' and to not do so robs the owner of that pleasure.

There's no right or wrong here, but for me; I'd keep 'investments' and 'hobbies' seperate, otherwise there are bound to be conflicts.

Quote from: DesertHound on August 06, 2014, 11:28:28 AM

Quote from: Only Me on August 06, 2014, 11:24:58 AM
Wow if you collect Poole built locos I've got loads of them which I have no use for that I purchased when I first got into the hobby!!......  I would much prefer a Dapol or Bachmann detailed model than one of the old poole versions that are more akin to a box on slightly dubious closeish chassis...

Stick 'em on fleabay or offer them on the N'porium!

Dan

What Dan said!
I could make use of 'em 

Quote from: FeelixTC on August 06, 2014, 12:01:58 PM
None taken 

As a (really clumsy) analogy:

When I was a wee lad, I got a James Bond DB5 toy car. Not the big Corgi one, with the rear bullet-proof screen and the revolving number plates, it was the smaller (read: cheaper) 'Matchbox' (I think) version, me mam was poor.
Still, this version did have the ejector seat, with the wee plastic villain, that you could eject by pushing a button.
Ever the practical one, me mam said: "I'll take that villain and keep it safe; you'll lose it"

That *was* the moment I 'lost it'. Irony was that I still had the villain, long after I'd lost the car.

My 'argument' here is that stuff like this is for 'playing with' and to not do so robs the owner of that pleasure.

There's no right or wrong here, but for me; I'd keep 'investments' and 'hobbies' seperate, otherwise there are bound to be conflicts.

Think I had one of those DB5's ... t'was a hand-me-down so I didn't even have the luxury of meeting the villain 

Agree with your point on hobbies vs investments. If I can pull us away from the "investment" word and all of the negative connotations that go with it, I see it like this (again, not directed at you Felix, I think someone else first coined the term investment on here) ...

We have a collection of models (in this case Poole models) that we bought solely for the purpose of enjoying / running / playing with, whatever we want to call it. I think most of us treat them with respect, handle them carefully, maintain them to the best of our ability etc. Many keep the boxes, and store their locos in separate trays for ease of access and also because those boxes are fiddly and not practical for getting the locos in and out of. Some do it also because the boxes get destroyed if constantly opened, closed, opened, closed. So, I would say if that describes most of us, then we do value what we have. That's not really from an investment point of view (we didn't buy them for that) but we at least want to pass them on one day, either to the next generation or to recoup some of the money spent buying them.

So, I would say let's substitute the word asset for investment. I see my locos as assets. Firstly to be enjoyed by me, with pride taken in their upkeep and running, and secondly as something to pass on one day.

I know that's not something everyone cares about, but I'm trying to get us away from the "investment" word - I hate it in relation to this hobby.

Cheers

Dan

Limited runs were of 500 I believe. Some are more popular than others, e.g. the Strathclyde 101, and until recently the LT 57xx. Many seem not so though, particularly diesels whose liveries have been redone on newer models by Bachmann.

Another more desirable pair are the 159 and 101 in NSE livery which were not made for very long and therefore are quite liked by those who model the 1990s in that area.

The Golden arrow set is extremely rare as the mechanics of the loco were terrible - the plastic chassis that split its gears etc. A running one of these in original condition is virtually non-existent.

The fact that so many have been badly meddled with does probably make the clean examples more rare, but it's yet to cause prices to rocket. Prices were way higher around 2003, not due to collect-ability, but due to complete lack of supply of new N gauge models at that time. 101s in particular were hitting £120... as were Peco Jubilees! I remember trying to boost my stock collection at that time with some difficulty at those prices! Who'd pay that now for one....

I think many of us who run primarily still have some Poole stock, but a lot have shifted it on, or relegated it to the drawer or display cabinet - robust and good running when fettled right, yes, but simply cannot compete with the standard of new models. Even the Bachfarish versions of Poole stock are starting to look dated now to even the most sympathetic Farish fan (which I'd say I was lol!).

It would be interesting to know the numbers of the standard models that were produced to see how rare they really are.

Cheers,
Alan

Quote from: Bealman on August 06, 2014, 11:06:48 AM
yet alone restoring a broken model... sorta like gluing a vase together then saying its collectable.

Especially given some parts are no longer available as original spares, such as the class 47 underframes and the plastic L clips that hold the bogies on.

Cheers,
Alan

Quote from: DesertHound on August 06, 2014, 11:49:16 AM
I'm someone who is genuinely interested in Poole built stock and pretty much Poole built stock only. I'm interested in the history of the company, the manufacturing techniques, the mechanisms, the lot.

You should seek out "Model Rail Video No.2" by Telerail - this had a good quantity of footage filmed at the Poole factory, very soon before it was taken over by Bachmann and closed, including various shots of manufacture of various models.

Cheers,
Alan

Quote from: Dr Al on August 06, 2014, 12:45:48 PM

Quote from: Bealman on August 06, 2014, 11:06:48 AM
yet alone restoring a broken model... sorta like gluing a vase together then saying its collectable.

Especially given some parts are no longer available as original spares, such as the class 47 underframes and the plastic L clips that hold the bogies on.

Cheers,
Alan

I wouldn't compare a broken vase stuck together with glue with a piece of engineering, which is designed to have components replaced as / when they wear out. If I had a 1960's Ferrari would it be deemed not collectable because I'd changed the cam belt?

Now, if I've glued the body back together because somebody stepped on it, I'd agree.

True, certain items are no longer available, but these are not the components that wear out. If you have a class 47 then it's unlikely your fuel tank or L clips are going to wear out (they could possibly snap). Brushes are still available, as are new magnets.

I'd say that pretty much everything you need to restore an original Farish is available from Bob at BR Lines. If you want copper comms / plastic armature couplings / original steel pick-ups / original Farish wheels etc. then agreed, you'd have to cannibalise.

I'll also go along with anything which "might" become collectable would need to have its original components. I think that's what you were getting at with your vase analogy Bealman.

Dan

Quote from: Dr Al on August 06, 2014, 12:45:48 PM

Quote from: Bealman on August 06, 2014, 11:06:48 AM
yet alone restoring a broken model... sorta like gluing a vase together then saying its collectable.

Especially given some parts are no longer available as original spares, such as the class 47 underframes and the plastic L clips that hold the bogies on.

Cheers,
Alan

You can 3D print the L clips for the bogies

I for one like the older models and given the price of some of them now it would be wrong not too. Ive seen fully working models go for less than £30 even £20 which for me is a clincher. In terms of collectability most arent worth much at all. However it seems the farish I/C HST still sells for £50+ so obviously not everyone's swapping to dapol ones.

However if you want collecting i also collect 1/400th scale airliners and have got over 1000 of them (1012 at the last count) and some do get displayed but you do begin to question your sanity after a while!

Richard

Quote from: DesertHound on August 06, 2014, 01:19:19 PM
True, certain items are no longer available, but these are not the components that wear out. If you have a class 47 then it's unlikely your fuel tank or L clips are going to wear out (they could possibly snap). Brushes are still available, as are new magnets.

Not wear out, as so much are more fragile than others - L clips can snap if mishandled, and clearly this is common given original supplies have been exhausted, similarly the fuel tank assemblies.

New magnets aren't original either - they are Bachfarish ones, so not strictly accurate for a Poole loco, as they have no dimple in the top surface. Similarly the brushes, are Bachmann units, slightly different to 1980s brushes originally shipped in the models. Whilst this all sounds potentially completely anal, collectors can be so, and as such it's difficult to know where the line is drawn on originality - everyone has their own take on it.

Suffice to say for me it's good that spares are still out there - one wonders if this will be the case with the models we buy new today in 20 years time!

Cheers,
Alan

Quote from: B757-236GT on August 06, 2014, 01:33:46 PM
I for one like the older models and given the price of some of them now it would be wrong not too. Ive seen fully working models go for less than £30 even £20 which for me is a clincher. In terms of collectability most arent worth much at all. However it seems the farish I/C HST still sells for £50+ so obviously not everyone's swapping to dapol ones.

However if you want collecting i also collect 1/400th scale airliners and have got over 1000 of them (1012 at the last count) and some do get displayed but you do begin to question your sanity after a while!

Richard

With a handle like that Rich, aviation wouldn't be your line of work by any chance would it? I also have a few airliner diecasts but to stop me getting carried away I made a rule that I'd only buy those which I've actually worked on in real life.

Dan