Hi Bealman
Indeed I am. Well as long as Mrs Kirky hasnt changed her mind.
I will certainly take photos of the N gauge layouts. I have suffered many of the OO layouts in the past, but if something takes my fancy I'll watch it for a bit and take some photos for you. No problem. Im not going till sunday tho.
Are you a Boro Lad?

Kirky

Many thanks for all the replies.

Regarding Sundeala, there are two types one of which is no longer made,

I emailed this to Sundeala:
Some thirty years ago I bought some Sundeala that was tan in colour, smooth on one side and dimpled underneath and was thicker that the thinner softer grey I purchased later. What choices are there in Sundeala board please?

This was their reply:
"That sounds like what was our 'A' board. We no longer make that I'm afraid.
We do still offer the light grey softer board as you describe, and we do do it in 3 thicknesses. 6,9 and 12mm."

So it would be interesting to know what those who advocate Sundeala are using, the new or the obsolete. I found the A board was far superior to the grey board and much harder.

Geoff

Quote from: kirky on July 04, 2014, 11:42:25 AM

Actually Im wondering whether or not you (Nobby) used it as a sheet or whether used openframe construction and cut it as a track bed?

Cheers
kirky

Hi Kirky,

I have used the Sundeala in both sheet and open frame construction. Like MacWales, when a layout ceases to exist all timber/Sundeala is re-used. In fact, some of the Sundeala I'm using on my latest effort (Bletchford) is now coming up for 30 years old

Geoff - just seen your post and have to admit to not having ever seen the animal you describe from 30 years ago so I've been using the 'standard' grey matter

Ha ha, no. Sunderland man. But we ARE off topic here. I look forward to pics. I believe Global moderator scotsoft is going. Hope you meet!

Back to Sundeala... 

Quote from: newportnobby on July 04, 2014, 12:10:50 PM

Quote from: kirky on July 04, 2014, 11:42:25 AM

Actually Im wondering whether or not you (Nobby) used it as a sheet or whether used openframe construction and cut it as a track bed?

Cheers
kirky

Hi Kirky,

I have used the Sundeala in both sheet and open frame construction.

You might have already mentioned this, but are these stay at home layouts? And if they are, do they have board joints? That's where I got problems, water ingress into the Sundeala at the edge of a board can easily make the track move a a couple of mil.
Cheers
Kirky

I am only referring to my home layout. I now bow to expertise from the forum! 

Quote from: kirky on July 04, 2014, 12:34:10 PM

You might have already mentioned this, but are these stay at home layouts? And if they are, do they have board joints? That's where I got problems, water ingress into the Sundeala at the edge of a board can easily make the track move a a couple of mil.
Cheers
Kirky

I did mention before my layouts are all 'house bound' but the latest is a feeble attempt at a show layout. I'm not sure how you got water onto the layout, but another reason for me using rubber track underlay is I'm trying to avoid the Sundeala getting wet when it comes to the ballasting
Yup - all my layouts have been/are composed of at least 3 boards so there are always joints, but the almost 30 year old stuff has been in a damp garage for at least 3 years (no heating, insulation etc )
I guess time will tell

Hi

I have bought Sundeala 3 times. All seem to be approx 9mm thick. Late 1970's  was a 4x8 sheet and is grey / tan in colour and quite smooth on one side, reasonably dense and mottled on the other side. This, in my opinion is the best.

The second, again 8x4 was bought in around 1983/4 and is tan in colour, smooth on one side and more rough on the other, again quite dense.

The latest (bought 3 years ago) is the metric equivalent and less dense and and slightly lower quality.

With my method of construction the are many joins, and some bits are tiny.

Each time I was not aware (found out on here today!) that it comes in different grades!!

Cheers

Mac 

Ply for me every time, 4 or 6mm - you don't need any more for lightweight n-gauge provided it is suitably braced. But do look for decent quality ply (so not B&Q!) It's stronger and lighter than chipboard, sundela or MDF.

Personally, I don't bother with a layer of cork or anything else except to give a built up ballast shoulder. The supposed noise suppressing qualities are questionable at best, and in a crowded exhibition the running noise will almost certainly be drowned out by the 00 DCC diesel depot at the other end of the hall and the monotone pronouncements of the neighbourhood rivet counter...

Quote from: newportnobby on July 04, 2014, 01:23:27 PM

Quote from: kirky on July 04, 2014, 12:34:10 PM

You might have already mentioned this, but are these stay at home layouts? And if they are, do they have board joints? That's where I got problems, water ingress into the Sundeala at the edge of a board can easily make the track move a a couple of mil.
Cheers
Kirky

I did mention before my layouts are all 'house bound' but the latest is a feeble attempt at a show layout. I'm not sure how you got water onto the layout, but another reason for me using rubber track underlay is I'm trying to avoid the Sundeala getting wet when it comes to the ballasting
Yup - all my layouts have been/are composed of at least 3 boards so there are always joints, but the almost 30 year old stuff has been in a damp garage for at least 3 years (no heating, insulation etc )
I guess time will tell

Indeed you did mention it, and if I hadn't been in such a rush at dinner time, I would have checked.
Water ingress, is essentially from leaving the boards somewhere where there are fluctuation in humidity. Like leaving them in a damp garage.

Oh bummer, one of the twins is falling asleep too early......it's bath time! Back shortly

Kirky

As I was saying before I so interrupted by nappy changing, bath time and 'In the Night Garden' it's leaving Sundeala in damp places for me that seems to be an issue. Actually if it gets very damp, MDF can suffer like his, but can be treated, or just painted at the ends.
Can Sundeala be treated similarly I'm wondering?

Further; having established that Sundeala comes in different grades I'm wondering if there are different manufacturers producing similar but not the same stuff? I always thought Sundeala was just notice boards, but I might well be wrong?
Cheers

Kirky

Quote from: kirky on July 04, 2014, 07:35:34 PM
Further; having established that Sundeala comes in different grades I'm wondering if there are different manufacturers producing similar but not the same stuff? I always thought Sundeala was just notice boards, but I might well be wrong?

"Sundela" is infact a brand name for one manufacturers recycled fibre-board. Many other manufacturers make very similar materials, but no other can call it 'Sundela'...

I've always purchased the 'Hobby Board'.
If you check out the FAQs on this site you'll find the 'conditioning' details which helps prevent moisture wicking once treated.

http://www.sundeala.co.uk/

Quote from: PLD on July 04, 2014, 05:51:21 PM
Personally, I don't bother with a layer of cork or anything else except to give a built up ballast shoulder. The supposed noise suppressing qualities are questionable at best, and in a crowded exhibition the running noise will almost certainly be drowned out by the 00 DCC diesel depot at the other end of the hall and the monotone pronouncements of the neighbourhood rivet counter...

Yes, total agreement. But the cork does provide a nice shoulder to the ballast, although it has been pointed out to me (on another thread, by the way - so please let's not enter into discussion about it here  ) that British Railways don't have much of a pronounced shoulder compared with, say US practice.

But I do like the effect the cork gives. The noise does not bother me at all.

My baseboard is 10mm ply covered with 4mm cork (you can buy 5m x 20cm rolls for 15 euro here) and despite using PVA for the ballast I don't have a noise problem, maybe it is because I've used the thicker cork?