Quote from: NeMo on June 09, 2014, 09:01:15 PM
And not really germane to the issue.

As an explanation of why it may happen, I beg to differ.

Quote
Technical issues aren't the reason* e-mails sent to some traders don't get replies; it's that the traders ignore them, or don't check that address much/at all, or don't know how their computer works.
[...]
*I'm sure once in a while e-mails are genuinely lost in the aether. But that's rare, very rare, and for the retailers we're talking about here, not a valid explanation.

Quote
It happens more often than you think; as someone within the IT industry and who has knowledge of email systems, I am speaking from a firm foundation ...

I do not make the argument that this did happen (re-read my post), just give a possible explanation.  But repeated emails that don't get replies ... yes, I agree something may be fishy - or they may just be (as you imply) incompetent.  I have been on the receiving end myself from a small vendor (no-one on here  ).

I blame the internet culture for the lack of patience we see in many areas these days ... (almost) everyone has an "I want it now" frame of mind    'Twas never like this in my youth ...  Technology has done many wondrous things - but at a high price.

Mike

this is  a perky thread

it's true, email isn't guaranteed delivery, i work in IS and see this from people external to my organization sometimes.

most of the time it is used as an excuse for not being arsed to reply.... not saying that is the case here.

To the OP, if you are posting with an email account that is more open to abuse (yahoo mail, gmail etc. yuor chance of being treated as junk by the receiver is higher than for a less open email domain.  Try a second email account and see if you get through

to MikeDunn.   check your junk email folder, you maybe missing something important

Didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest - just wanted to know other peoples experiences,
and I did check Osborns Website before I rang, noticed they were closed on Sundays, noted the office hours, but missed the fact that they also close on a Monday. I have tried ringing on another day, but some days you can't get through to the U.K. from Tenerife.

In my opinion Emails should be answered promptly - if Hattons can email me back within seconds of me placing an order with them (and I have used them on 15 occasions to-date), why can't others respond, at least within 48 hours.
Don't believe a word of the statement "email might not have been received by them". I have sent and received thousands & thousands of emails without any problems, and if the email address is invalid you get a notification of such virtually straight away.

I was an I.T. Manager for 30 years before I retired, and currently I am a Moderator on our complex's Website, and if someone new tries to register on the site, or posts something contentious, or asks me a question, I respond the same day depending on what time I log on.

As all my model railway purchases are made online, I need a supplier I can rely on and can trust to deliver to me what I want in a reasonable time. Being new to N gauge (since last September) I am still finding out who I can trust when making orders, and to-date have tried Hattons (excellent service), Gaugemaster, Peters Spares, BR Rail (helpful & immediate response to 1st enquiry), CR Signals, and Osborns.

Some sites don't even list/recognise the Canary Isles, assuming they are part of Spain, but the Canaries have their own Tax & Vat Rules and are NOT part of the EEC, even though Spain is. Deliveries to the Canaries from the U.K. are not subject to VAT, and I need a supplier who recognises that fact.

I will try ringing Osborns again tomorrow, and report back on the outcome. Everyone deserves a second chance, but if they don't come up trumps next time round, then that's it as far as I am concerned.

Thanks for all the replies, even if some of them were not particularly complimentary, not used to shops closing on a Monday, it's usually one of the busiest days in town here as I can never park my car anywhere near where I want to go on a Monday. Closing between 1pm and 3.30pm each day yes (for a Siesta), but then they open again till late at night.
   

 

Hi TDM,

I have sent you a couple of personal messages, I have checked the inbox and spam folders and the last email we have from you was on the 15th. I will see if I can track this parcel down for you. We did have a customer phone up last week to say that they had an email bounce back that they had tried to send us, so if this has happened with yours, please accept my apologies.

Quote from: DCCDave on June 09, 2014, 09:17:54 PM
I agree that technically proof of sending is not proof of receipt and that occasionally e-mails do not reach their intended target. But the technological excuse is much overused,

I have rgular problems with emails being lost when dealing with customers, and in some cases pairs of sites that simply cannot mail one another without stuff being lost or put in the spam folder. I know I sent replies, the customer would have no reason to make it up that they emailed me.

Some is explainable (eg an Amazon voucher that happened to include V1AGR in the code!) but much of it is farcical. For example you cannot currently receive a National Express eticket on Gmail - they get filed in the spam - and have done for so long it's simply a "known issue"

If you don't get a response by email then it's quite likely it got lost. Modern spam filters are quite good at filtering spam but *useless* at not filtering content.

Some suppliers are also useless at reading their email but that's another story.

Alan

Oi Oi Zakalwe ... nothing wrong with a perky thread mate - it brings the punters through the door! 

I think we're all grown up enough on here to keep it civilised and it's the kind of discussion that I'm sure would split opinions if we were having it over a  We're all friends really  To be honest, I can see both sides of the divide; the technical camp who say e-mails can and do get lost (valid points guys) and the customer service camp who expect a reply.

TDM, it looks like you got a reply tonight from Osborns, which I guess solves this particular issue. Based on that, I would give them a second chance (it just "could" have been a spam issue - something I didn't actually think of before, but plausible, as others have pointed out). I'm also stranded on shores afar and face the same issues as you with regards to finding reliable retailers. Luckily the VAT issue is definitely non-contestable in my case 

As I said in a previous post, I haven't used Osborns yet, but I'll sure give them a try sometime.

Phew - only my second day as a NGF member! Perhaps I should be staying away from the school playground fights 

Quote from: MKP on June 09, 2014, 10:05:55 PM
Hi TDM,
I have sent you a couple of personal messages, I have checked the inbox and spam folders and the last email we have from you was on the 15th. I will see if I can track this parcel down for you. We did have a customer phone up last week to say that they had an email bounce back that they had tried to send us, so if this has happened with yours, please accept my apologies.

Thanks for looking into the matter. The emails I sent on the 3rd & 6th of June to Osborns I have copied & pasted into my latest PM to you sent a few minutes ago.

Don't wish to drag the debate on – but I did say I would report on the outcome of any  discusions with Osborns, and the current situation is that payment for my order shows  on my latest Credit Card Statement, but items have still not arrived.

Maurice & Mike of Osborns (Father & Son) are now looking into the matter (thanks to this Forum), and the latest email received from Maurice is that my emails headed "Missing order" went into their Spam folder and have only just now been found.

I find this a little strange as I have sent in total 12 emails to Osborns, all with the same email address, and apart from one other, all the rest have been answered or dealt with.


Date:          Time:   Heading & Content Summary:
12/11/13   20.06    N Gauge model railway items
                              (asking about delivery to Tenerife)
16/02/14   16.28   VAT
                             (Canary Isles missing from Countries list)
16/02/14   17.54   Re VAT
                             (follow up info)
17/02/14   20.38    Order for delivery to Tenerife
                             (Unable to complete order because Canary Isles still missing)
18/02/14   01.10   RE Order for delivery to Tenerife
                              (Details of items wished to order put in email)
25/02/14   17.25    RE Tenerife order
                              (Acknowledgement of receipt of order in Tenerife)

13/05/14   13.26    Order for Tenerife
                              (Canaries still mising from Website)
14/05/14   20.30    FW Order for Tenerife
                              (Repeat as previous email not acknowledged)
15/04/14   10.47    RE Order for Tenerife
                              (Still not showing Canaries)
15/04/14   16.38    Re Order for Tenerife
                              (Acknowledge that Website now amended for Canaries)
03/06/14   17.19    Missing Order
                              (1st notification to Osborns that order never arrived)
06/06/14   17.50    FW Missing Order
                              (Repeat of previous email as was not acknowledged)

From the above you will see that when I finally managed to complete my 1st order it arrived 7 days later. The 2nd order I tried to make on the 13th of May, rang it through on the 15th of May, yet transaction date on Credit Card statement shows only 22nd of May, and still not received.

Hopefully I will get a successful resolution of the matter, and then it would be only fair if I reported on that fact if and when it occurs.

Hi Mr Makinson

I tried calling you this morning and left you an answer machine message. What is the best time to call and I can give you call back this afternoon.

Again sincere apologies for the delay on this parcel arriving with yourself and we are trying to track this down for you at the moment.

Quote from: MKP on June 10, 2014, 12:25:46 PM
Hi Mr Makinson
I tried calling you this morning and left you an answer machine message. What is the best time to call and I can give you call back this afternoon.
Again sincere apologies for the delay on this parcel arriving with yourself and we are trying to track this down for you at the moment.

Sorry - had just nipped out - have tried ringing you back but getting the engaged tone.
I am in at the moment.

Terry

Whilst I was in retail jewellery for close on 20 years we had a policy which was never to leave a customer in the shop if the phone rang unless one of us on rare occasions  was doing nothing and then they would answer it  .
OK so jewellery is high risk commodity as far as theft is concerned but  think anyone who deserted a customer in any kind of shop to answer the phone would be being rude to whoever he/she was serving.
Smallish family retail business cant afford to employ someone just to sit around to answer the phone. 

QuoteSmallish family retail business cant afford to employ someone just to sit around to answer the phone. 

In which case there should be an extension phone in the shop,  a quick "I'm serving a customer, can you hold or can I call you back"  should do the trick. Alternatively an automated answer asking the caller to leave name and number.

Quote from: DesertHound on June 09, 2014, 10:32:21 PM
Oi Oi Zakalwe ... nothing wrong with a perky thread mate - it brings the punters through the door! 

i was hoping for more forum interwebs drama........

after all the moans, they do a nice small fire station to print free 

alan