FWIW

Kiwi's and Oz's have an ongoing love-hate relationship between each other as many will know.  This inevitably effects our language!!

It is a fact that New Zealander's DO speak differently from their Australian cousins, although this can at times be difficult to detect.  Kiwi's use rounded vowels while the Australian tendency is to pronounce vowels in  more 'nasal' way.

This has resulted in differences in pronunciation, best reflected in the way that both nations pronounce three specific words:

'Fish and Chips'  and (the number) 'Six'

Australian's pronounce Fish and chips as 'feesh eeend cheeeeps'

Kiwis: 'fush uhnd chupps'

Australian's pronounce Six' as 'seeex'

Kiwi's: 'sux'

As a result. Kiwi's are always taunted by their Oz cousins about their speech and asked to say 'fish and chips' and 'six' as proof of Australia's perceived 'linguistic superiority' .

HOWEVER, all is not lost for the Kiwi's!!!

Due to large-scale emigration from New Zealand over the last 40-odd years, and the inevitable influencing of linguistic traits which this has had on the local language, 'Standard Australian English' is actually in retreat, and is largely confined to New South Wales (especially Sydney), the ACT, Victoria and parts of South Australia. Brisbane, the Gold Coast  and Perth are now 'Kiwi'-ised' and  the local language is now very 'Kiwi' in texture and useage.

So, given time, the genuine OZ language might become 'extinct...

Not bad for a small group of island's located 1200 miles off-shore.

I might just go and get some 'fush uhnd chupps' to celebrate... 

As I said, FWIW, it's a fascinating subject.

Quote from: Komata on January 28, 2014, 11:33:38 PM
So, given time, the genuine OZ language might become 'extinct...

I thought most of the genuine OZ languages already were   

My parents came to the UK from Poland, dad having been mobilised at the start of WW2 and ending up in Italy, mum smuggled out at the end of the war (she used to make corsets for Hattie Jacques). Because Polish doesn't have a 'V' in its alphabet, the 'W' is pronounced as a 'V'. So we had a lot of 'Vy von't you vork harder at school as ve vant', though really our house language was always Polish.
One day my mother went into a hardware shop and asked to buy some 'Auntie poison'. The assistant was agast! "You want to poison your aunties, why?". Mum said "Because we have too many and they're becoming a nuisance". Tears of laughter were rolling down my cheeks as I explained that what she really wanted was 'ant poison'.
Dad could not distinguish between 'Sheet' and well I don't have to spell it out. I tried explaining but he never got it.

Mark

What Komata says is absolutey true. A few years back at the National Narrow Gauge Convention in Colorado Springs, we had a Kiwi and Ozzy at out table and immediatly 'Fush ahnd Chupps' came up in conversation. Really funny.

But you should hear the jokes we Poles have against the Czechs when it comes to languare. For instance the literal translation of the Polish version for the Czech word for 'apron' is 'two sided bum lash', or 'pigeon' is 'roof crapper'. But they sound like they are really Czech. Boy can language be funny.

Mark

If you go to some parts in the west of Scotland you will hear people speaking in a manner which makes Billy Connolly sound like Sir John Gielgud. Yesterday I heard a woman say "am urny"
meaning " I am not " when asked if she was going to some event. Other phrases eg when
discussing the weather are "It's no sae bad the day isnae it no but".Others preface their phrases
with the word "see" as in " See me , ah love chipsncurry" or "See ma wife she canny cook".

It's a funny old game.

Currently learning Klingon so I can communicate with natives of Paisley.

Agrippa

Agree about 'Scottish'.  Due to 'circumstances' I was raised by two parents in two separate geographical locations, one speaking ''Proper' Home Counties-type English, the other a form of English that was heavily influenced by a very distinct dialectal form of 'Scottish' which was not too far removed from the Gaelic.

As a child it (and as children do) was of course very easy to mix the two
(sometimes 'just for fun') , which often had 'interesting' results as both families were determined that I 'speak properly', and NOT use the 'other-one's' English...

To complicate things there was also the 'national' form of English, as taught in schools.

As you can appreciate this meant that linguistically, I had a very 'interesting' childhood, and it took me years to get rid of the very-pronounced 'Burr' on some of my words.  The 'Gaelic' influence was surprisingly strong.

As previously noted, I am a language teacher.  Make of that what you will....

My other half Clare is Edinburgh born and bred, and only left there to come south for University twelve years ago. She has kept her accent all this time.

However, six years living with a cockney is starting to take its toll   She's started dropping her H's - 'orse, 'ungry, 'edge'og, to name a few - and saying other non Scottish things like "cor bluddy 'ell".

We now call her accent "Jockney" 


Paul

Quote from: Sprintex on February 02, 2014, 05:27:56 PM
However, six years living with a cockney is starting to take its toll   She's started dropping her H's - 'orse, 'ungry, 'edge'og, to name a few - and saying other non Scottish things like "cor bluddy 'ell".

We now call her accent "Jockney" 


Paul

Sounds like she's been taking elocution lessons from Arry Redknapp.

I'm bilingual and living away from the 'Mother' country means that the language evolves away from the original. In our case we started using a few words in Polish which were taken from English which off course meant nothing to people living in Poland. 'Ciężarówka' is one example (go on, try pronouncing it!). It means 'lorry' so we English Poles adopted the much shorter 'lora' instead. OK in the UK but in Poland? When I first got there in 1966, when travel restrictions were lifted, I got some very strange looks, though I was (and still am fluent). But I had to adjust my vocabulary PDQ.
BTW we did the Hoek Van Holland - Krakow trip by rail usually by steam from the East - West German border, sometimes earlier (never in Holland IIRC, always electric). Usually got delayed by a few hours, on one occasion our carriage hitch-hiked from East Berlin to Krakow and we were 24 hours late. Halcyon days.

Mark K.

Polishman goes to the optician, who asks him if he can see the bottom line on the chart on the wall. ''See it?", says the Pole, "He's a good friend of mine".

Quote from: Mark K on February 02, 2014, 06:10:30 PM

Polishman goes to the optician, who asks him if he can see the bottom line on the chart on the wall. ''See it?", says the Pole, "He's a good friend of mine".

How about the Irish guy who goes to the opticians. The optician asks him to close one eye and read the chart. Paddy can't close one eye - it's both or nothing - but the optician has an idea. He takes a Cornflakes box and cuts a hole in it at eye level. "Try this Paddy" he says. Paddy replies, "It's very nice but I'd rather have a pair with gold rimmed frames like my mate"

Sorry if you've heard it before (it's an old one).

Best regards,


Joe

Quote from: joe cassidy on February 02, 2014, 06:47:53 PM

Sorry if you've heard it before (it's an old one).

I have and it is!

As you know, the French have a few problems with English.

Sometimes it's difficult to know whether they want to :

- hit you

- hate you

or

- eat you.

On the other hand, English speakers can have problems in pronouncing the French vowels "ou" and "u" correctly, which can cause problems/laughter because :

cou = neck

cul = backside

Vive la différence !


Joe

Reminds me of the story about Winston Churchill during WW2. General De Gaulle was
in London for a meeting with Churchill.  Churchill's secretary warned Winston that being French, when they meet De Gaulle would want to kiss him on both cheeks.

Churchill replied "He can kiss me on all four if it will help shorten the war !".

And then, of course there are the Asian languages, especially Mandarin and Japanese which are tonal, and give absolutely NO indication in their written form as to how they should be pronounced....

To an English-speaker, these are 'deadly' as the slightest (unintentional) intonation can give a completely different meaning to what is intended and cause immense mirth to the 'native speaking' listeners.  The 'Foreigner' of course has no idea about the 'gaff' he has committed...

The results can be 'interesting', and in a restaurant  it can be gastronomically 'educational' when one is confronted with the results of a 'tonally-incorrect' order....

Without getting into any controversy, no doubt as a result of such experiences, perhaps the 'English' had the right idea during the 'Empire' era, when they insisted on the use of their own language as the 'standard' for communication.  In India (for example) where there are at least 500 different languages in one country (as it was then) it made perfect sense.. 

There were of course 'unintended consequences' of such actions. Spike Milligan and Peter Sellars come to mind... ('nuff said).