Good grief! We're just playin' trains, aren't we?

There are indeed manufacturers of N gauge model railway equipment who actively peruse this forum. Some are people who run a 'cottage industry' and also advertise their products here.

I'm sorry, but this last (well, one before last ) post sounds like we're making jet engines on an N scale factory floor here.

Yes, QC (I'm picking up the jargon) - is a major issue, and you don't hear any arising from Kato products.

But, I think it is important that we remember that we are not talking about buying a new car or puttin' a new kitchen in, here. We are just talkin' model railways - which probably 98% of the world's population either regards as eccentric or (more likely) doesn't even know about.

Best regards, to all,

George.

Out of 3,000 members only 108 voted.

Possible explanations

They're busy running their trains
They don't give a monkeys
They haven't bought Farish or Dapol locos
They fell asleep once the how to run a factory stuff started

Quote from: Bealman on January 09, 2014, 10:14:26 AM
We are just talkin' model railways

So??? I really, really don't agree with this sentiment - the genre of items is no excuse for poor products.

We're paying about £100 a loco now. Might be cheap to some, but I consider it a lot - so it doesn't matter whether it's just a toy to you, to me I expect better quality that we often get.

Cheers,
Alan

Quote from: Agrippa on January 09, 2014, 10:31:15 AM
Out of 3,000 members only 108 voted.

Possible explanations

They're busy running their trains
They don't give a monkeys
They haven't bought Farish or Dapol locos
They fell asleep once the how to run a factory stuff started

I think that about sums it up.

George

Quote from: Dr Al on January 09, 2014, 10:40:13 AM
We're paying about £100 a loco now. Might be cheap to some, but I consider it a lot - so it doesn't matter whether it's just a toy to you, to me I expect better quality that we often get.

I agree, toys or not, we have the right for our toys not to go up in smoke after a couple of hours play.

British law specifies that products must be fit for purpose. I would expect a £100 toy to last for several years provided that it is well looked after.

Quote from: Bealman on January 09, 2014, 10:14:26 AM
Good grief! We're just playin' trains, aren't we?-----------I'm sorry, but this last (well, one before last ) post sounds like we're making jet engines on an N scale factory floor here.-----------------------But, I think it is important that we remember that we are not talking about buying a new car or puttin' a new kitchen in, here. We are just talkin' model railways - which probably 98% of the world's population either regards as eccentric or (more likely) doesn't even know about.

Best regards, to all,

George.

I guess you're not getting it George. At least now I'm retired I don't get paid to convince people anymore so I will desist. So end of contributions from me on this thread. Thank heavens?

New Dapol BR green 57xx pannier just arrived from Hattons and needs running in this afternoon when I get home. If it doesn't work no matter - it was only £61 plus postage. But then I'm sure I will be lucky - 90% of the time I am.

Quote from: Bealman on January 09, 2014, 10:14:26 AM
Good grief! We're just playin' trains, aren't we?

There are indeed manufacturers of N gauge model railway equipment who actively peruse this forum. Some are people who run a 'cottage industry' and also advertise their products here.

I'm buying a product.  I expect it to be made fit for purpose.  They are not a couple of pounds each.
It is not as if BR manufacturers are at the cutting edge where new technology throws up a few unexpected events but generally trailing decades behind even with very good examples on how to get it right readily available.
I hope that companies are perusing the forums and actually taking highlighted quality problems seriously.
CFJ

I'll readily go along with that. I was actively involved in a local N gauge club during the late 1980's and early 90's. Kato models were available then, owned by some members, and envied by the likes of me.

No British Kato, unfortunately - until of course along came the Eurostar, albeit, as noted by other contributors to this thread, at a different scale.

However, even back then, I and other local N gauge people wondered why Kato got it right, whereas the English stuff was so much rubbish in comparison.

The reason(s) has/have  been discussed at length on this thread, so I will not add anything. At the time around 1990, I remember my catch cry at the club and exhibitions was:

"When are Kato going to bring out a Blue Pullman?"

It could have been brought out as a boxed set, similar to the Eurostar. It would, of course have been to the wrong scale!

We now have the Farish model, of which I am a proud owner (and, luckily.... it runs like a dream).

However, putting my side of this argument to rest, I see where you are all coming from with calls of 100% running reliability when you buy stuff.

But it ain't gonna happen. I have bought two brand new cars in the last 30 years that were lemons.

However, yeah, there's no harm in letting the manufacturers know about problems, I guess.

But I also guess that, yeah, I still don't get it  . What's on offer to British N scalers these days is streets ahead of what went before.

100% reliability has never been, and never will be, a possibility. I hope that the 57xx Pannier falls into the 90% window allocated. 

BR green, it must have!! 

George 

Sorry Bealman I do expect better for a £100 loco and I would be incredibly surprised if the 10% rate is not much much higher when you equate into the numbers people who fix locos and the collectors market.

Anyone with a ounce of electronic know how can see the cheap nasty components that go into the Dapol models and it needs to be drilled into them that it is costing them money in the long run. For the price of a bag of tomatoes all the components from resistors. pcb's and motors could be upgraded and as Zunnan pointed out earlier you have resistors etc that are not fit for purpose. One of their continuing problems seems to be a non standardization across their entire range so that you have completely different circuity over many different locos and even different motor voltage. Farish pretty much have a standardized way of doing things with very similar components  across the range. But above all things, with Dapol, is the soldering which would be an embarrassment to a five year old let alone a company involved in electronics.

Quote from: Truffles on January 09, 2014, 12:24:20 PM
Farish pretty much have a standardized way of doing things with very similar components  across the range.

I don't agree entirely. Farish have 6 different motor types. Dapol have 3...

Cheers,
Alan

What are you basing the 3 on exactly?

While I am on my soap box I also think the price of spare components from DCC Supplies is nothing short of daylight robbery with one example being the replacement lighting unit for a class 26 at £8.40 !!!!!!!!! Now that is a component that will have cost Dapol sub 10p to manufacture (if it was not sub 10p then they have been ripped off) I have no problem with retailers making a profit but this is just not right particularly when DCC supplies are so heavily involved with Dapol and the owner actually works for them.

Dan

Rough breakdown of that £8.40, £1.40 is VAT.  1/3 retail margin, 1/3 manufacturers margin, 1/3 product cost.

Looking at the component cost of most model railway items doesn't tell you much as the costs are normally design, tooling and assembly much more than components (an injection moulded body is pennies, but that doesn't mean you are being ripped off).

The fact that the owner of DCC supplies works for Dapol P/T is irrelevant...

Quote from: Truffles on January 09, 2014, 12:56:42 PM
What are you basing the 3 on exactly?

Farish:
- Original Poole 5 pole armature
- Open frame 5 pole Bachmann skew wound motor (e.g class 45, upgraded Poole diesels)
- V2 small diameter 3 pole can (different to below)
- Small diameter 3 pole can motor (e.g. 03, 04, Jubilee, tender drives)
- larger diameter 3 pole can motor (E.g. revised HST, 108, diesels)
- cylindrical coreless motor on latest steam

Dapol:
- 3 pole original can (Ivatt, Q1)
- 3 pole 'super creep' can (Terrier, 57xx)
- 5 pole 'super creep' open frame (pretty much everything else).

Cheers,
Alan

Hang on a minute Truffles.

We don't know the costs and profit margins, and in any case everyone in the supply chain has a right to make a profit.

Perhaps this thread will have an effect upon Dapol (since they seem to be on the receiving end of most harsh comments). On the other hand, anybody from Union Mills, Kato, Minitrix etc will be really pleased. Not sure where Farish is left though - they have had some criticism as well.

Quote from: Truffles on January 09, 2014, 12:56:42 PM
While I am on my soap box I also think the price of spare components from DCC Supplies is nothing short of daylight robbery

Some are, some are very cheap - e.g. A3 wheelsets for only a few £, motors are ~£15 (comparable with Farish), gears 60p-£1 (comparable with Farish).

Some of the PCBs etc are expensive, as are the motorised chassis - cheaper to buy the standard loco and remove the body.

Cheers,
Alan