I've just bought a bunch of N Gauge toolboxes from our very own Etched Pixels. After looking through several books (while researching loco upgrade details) I have to admit that I couldn't find one noticeable use of a toolbox on a steam loco. Where would they have been positioned, typically?

Are there any online pictures, or do my books have the photos and I've just missed them (of course, now you're going to have to work out which books I've looked at! The clue is SR south west, LMS, and S&DJR).

Peter

Photos of tank engines sometimes show the box at the rear or on the coal ... other photos show the box on the side near the cab.

Several places

- On the tender on some locos
- On top of one of the water tanks in some cases
- Under the pannier tank of some panniers (already on the RTR model)

In the early days they would have been painted with the drivers name and travelled with the driver and his fireman (the driver basically employed his fireman long ago)

I actually did them initially for my M15/F4/F5 as they oftenhad a toolbox sat on the left hand tank (as viewed from front), and this belonged to the locomotive - it even had the locomotive number on it and was lined!

Other places they often turned up were on the buffer beam above the cylinders (eg on small and low locos like the LNER Y4 and Y5)

Peter,

Having just looked through my copy of,  The Somerset & Dorset an English Cross Country railway by the great Ivo Peters, I can only see one incidence of a toolbox and that is on the running plate of a pannier tank. This just goes to show that the S&D engines were so well looked after that their crews didn't feel the need to carry repair kits....
When I started work in 1974 one of foremen at Swindon Loco was Len West the last shedmaster at Bath Green Park (well thats what he told me), he got me my copy as Ivo Peters was his neighbour.

Jerry

Quote from: Jerry Howlett on December 10, 2013, 12:58:14 PM
Having just looked through my copy of,  The Somerset & Dorset an English Cross Country railway by the great Ivo Peters, I can only see one incidence of a toolbox and that is on the running plate of a pannier tank...

I have that book too, Jerry, although not sadly via the last shedmaster at Bath Green Park. Having just looked through it twice I still can't find the photo you refer to.

Quote from: EtchedPixels on December 10, 2013, 12:26:47 PM
In the early days they would have been painted with the drivers name and travelled with the driver and his fireman (the driver basically employed his fireman long ago)

Other places they often turned up were on the buffer beam above the cylinders (eg on small and low locos like the LNER Y4 and Y5)

Good to know, Alan, although I noticed that all the locos you mentioned are from the LNER area. I think I need to find some pictorial references so that I can be happy I'm attaching them to the right places on locos.

Quote from: Pete33 on December 10, 2013, 02:06:37 PM

Quote from: Jerry Howlett on December 10, 2013, 12:58:14 PM
Having just looked through my copy of,  The Somerset & Dorset an English Cross Country railway by the great Ivo Peters, I can only see one incidence of a toolbox and that is on the running plate of a pannier tank...

I have that book too, Jerry, although not sadly via the last shedmaster at Bath Green Park. Having just looked through it twice I still can't find the photo you refer to.

Photo in my copy is number 6. The pannier is 8745 and is on the far left turntable road , if you look closely there is a big curved lump under the right tank. That I am sure is the toolbox, however having looked now at other pannier tank pictures it looks like that one was a "supplied as standard".

I do not have the Dapol pannier so do not know if it comes with this fixture.

Jerry

You've got good eyes to have spotted that in the first place! It certainly does seem to be a standard feature:

http://train-photos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/6356.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/GWR_4612_at_Bodmin_General.JPG
http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/images/reviews/Rail_Fan%2015-gwr-pannier-2.jpg
http://www.newmodellersshop.co.uk/images/Trains/steam/r2534a-gwr-pannier-tank-2748.jpg

But it also looks suspiciously like a toolbox. However, that's the Greasy Wet and Rusty (blame DorsetMike for giving me that particular nickname). What about 'real' locos of the SR and LMS?

Perhaps the Midland & Southern built there locos big enough to accommodate a tool box on the inside!

LNWR locos had 2 tool boxes (big ones) located on top of the tender tank within easy reach of the footplate.

Best regards,


Joe

Quote from: joe cassidy on December 11, 2013, 11:54:59 AM
LNWR locos had 2 tool boxes (big ones) located on top of the tender tank within easy reach of the footplate.

Best regards,


Joe

Like these, Joe?

http://www.davidlosmith.co.uk/images/RailwayModels/LNWR_Cauliflower_Express_Goods-3qtrlrg.jpg
http://eastsidepilot.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/lnwr-a-class.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/LNWR_Jumbo_class_locomotive_790_Hardwicke_%28Howden,_Boys%27_Book_of_Locomotives,_1907%29.jpg

Thanks for the spot. They seem to have a resting place on top of the water reservoir (I think), but later tender locos don't have this kind of space near the footplate, so where would a toolbox go? Inside the cab, probably, where it can't be seen.

Yes - that's what I was refering to.

Maybe later locos were :

(a) more reliable, so less need for tool boxes, or

(b) more complicated, so all repairs had to be done back at the shed ?

Best regards,


Joe

Quote from: joe cassidy on December 11, 2013, 05:26:24 PM
Yes - that's what I was refering to.

Maybe later locos were :

(a) more reliable, so less need for tool boxes, or

(b) more complicated, so all repairs had to be done back at the shed ?

Best regards,


Joe

With both a and b, that's a bit like modern cars, I guess. More reliable on the whole but you just can't fix them with a spanner and a pair of tights any more.

The upshot does seem to be that visible toolboxes are okay on older locos, and perhaps especially tank engines. Some had them built in:

http://www.semgonline.com/steam/e1_class.html

I saw something similar on the back of a 'Terrier' and both that and the pic above are LB&SCR locos. I haven't found anything to show the S&DJR using them, which was the real purpose of this thread, but I think I could sneak in one or two.