Vacuum pumps, vacuum chambers, pressure pots, compressor..............................................

The costs mount, the manufacturer needs to recoup them somehow. If they don't = no new kits. Simple.

Trouble is that there's a lot of folk who want everything as cheap as chips all the time and it just isn't possible all the time. Also where the level of detail on rtr is mind boggling now compared to days of yore those same folk expect it in a kit now too. Still, can't please everyone.

Reminds me of an old saying:

'You can't get Rolls Royce quality at Ford prices.' 

Quote from: moogle on October 06, 2013, 10:57:43 PM
'You can't get Rolls Royce quality at Ford prices.' 

Reminds me of a story from a few years back - a friend of mine used to work for Rolls Royce.

One day someone phoned in to say his Rolls Royce had broken down and he yelled this news out to his boss ...

The announcement sent his boss into a fit of apoplexy ...  but having regained his composure he announced "Young man - A Rolls Royce NEVER breaks down!  It simply 'Fails to Proceed' !!"

I love that story

Quote from: Mr Sprue on October 06, 2013, 05:09:53 PM

There are two kits that are on the workbench, the first of which I am planning to release middle of next year, but I'm not going to say what they are yet until I am fully satisfied everything fits and they can be produced to a good standard.

Oooo, you're making it sound exciting.

Time to start a thread about them?

H.

Quote from: NTrain on October 06, 2013, 10:39:39 PM
Vacuum pumps, vacuum chambers, pressure pots, compressor..............................................

Very true...I gather sending the masters off to be cast by the likes of CMA is also very expensive these days.

Because we have used vinyls on the 313, it has helped to keep the costs of the 3D Print down, enabling Bob to sell the unit for what I believe to be a very reasonable cost.

Quote from: H on October 07, 2013, 02:22:21 AM

Quote from: Mr Sprue on October 06, 2013, 05:09:53 PM

There are two kits that are on the workbench, the first of which I am planning to release middle of next year, but I'm not going to say what they are yet until I am fully satisfied everything fits and they can be produced to a good standard.

Oooo, you're making it sound exciting.

Time to start a thread about them?

H.

A thread about them, no not yet H! But just to re assure I am not stringing people along here this is just one of the machines I own although mines a little older! http://www.travin.co.uk/tp1.html

Regarding the posts made about the costs of equipment and machinery, I fully agree that this should reflect in the retail value of an item, but the projection should be spread over a larger number of items produced and not a few.

That is of course if any costly equipment was purchased at all and by that some of the kits I've come across the word "Budget" springs to mind!

Quote from: captainelectra on October 07, 2013, 07:59:32 AM

Quote from: NTrain on October 06, 2013, 10:39:39 PM
Vacuum pumps, vacuum chambers, pressure pots, compressor..............................................

Very true...I gather sending the masters off to be cast by the likes of CMA is also very expensive these days.

CMA at not cheap, but they do seem to deliver good quality results. There are cheaper resin casters but quality in resin is always a bit hit and miss (mostly miss). I suspect resin is on its way out as a modelling medium once 3D print gets a bit better at the lower price ranges (the Envisontech stuff can already print masters at plastic moulding quality, just the price is still a bit high)

Still using white metal but solely because the weight is useful for some models

Alan

Quote from: EtchedPixels on October 07, 2013, 03:38:54 PM

Quote from: captainelectra on October 07, 2013, 07:59:32 AM

Quote from: NTrain on October 06, 2013, 10:39:39 PM
Vacuum pumps, vacuum chambers, pressure pots, compressor..............................................

Very true...I gather sending the masters off to be cast by the likes of CMA is also very expensive these days.

CMA at not cheap, but they do seem to deliver good quality results. There are cheaper resin casters but quality in resin is always a bit hit and miss (mostly miss). I suspect resin is on its way out as a modelling medium once 3D print gets a bit better at the lower price ranges (the Envisontech stuff can already print masters at plastic moulding quality, just the price is still a bit high)

Still using white metal but solely because the weight is useful for some models

Alan

Would you predict though that a 3D printer could produce models at a rate and cost equal to that of mould injection?

I think this thread has gone seriously off topic.

Regardless of quality, I aplaud this manufacturer for bringing out a model which was not currently available.

Quote from: NTrain on October 07, 2013, 06:20:02 PM
I think this thread has gone seriously off topic.

Regardless of quality, I aplaud this manufacturer for bringing out a model which was not currently available.

I can't agree with you about the quality, but as to producing something that wasn't available I agree N gauge needs that kind of contribution.



Or does it?




With that said I am saying no more on the subject.

Well here I am, not really much further along the line with this 2-BIL malarkey.

I like the idea that we have a new manufacturer in N, especially in the SR EMU market.
I also like making kits.  They have been made with various success.

My historic kits:
I have built whitemetal kits in the past (most already sold on/gone to landfill), but the Peco/Wills and GEM kits were very good (and I have kept them for posterity).
Anyone who ever tried a whitemetal MTK Western on a LifeLike chassis will know that we put up with a lot in the old days!
I had an old "Lion Models" Hymek resin kit in the mid 1990s which was total rubbish.  It was a cottage manufacturer which has long since disappeared.
The Fox Models resin Hymek (and 23/24 kits) were very good for their time too, but they have been traded on as new versions appeared.
A BHE class 73 which was a whitemetal/plastic/brass kit was my first attempt at real kit (nightmare scratchaid?) building and that too has been kept for posterity.

My current kit fleet:
The current Parkwood resin models are in my view very good resin models.  The models I have built are mostly unlikely to become mainstream production models (ex LMS Jackshaft Shunter (NGS AMMC winner) Class 15, Maunsell Shunter, Hudswell Clarke Shunter, SR Snowplough (NGS AMMC winner)) and they are a delight to work with.
I have also made totally brass kits (several Class 07s) which I think were really very well designed by Alan, and once i learned to work with brass i became converted to the technology.
For all these kits, a good chassis works wonders, so thak you Minitrix (V60) and Farish (04 and 08).
I updated my old BHE class 71 and 74 kits by ditching the old Farish 33 chassis, stripping them back to the original components, shoehorning them onto the Dapol hymek chassis and detailing them.  They are now happy and look the part.
I have a plethora of BHE kits in various states of completion.  In fact only one (a 128 on a Greenmax chassis) has made it to completion, and in the end it felt like everything was rejected from the kit apart from the brass sides - which were reworked to have recessed doors, and the whitemetal ends and plastic roof.  It was really a scratch aid kit! It made it to be an NGS AMMC runner up.  In fact all of my BHE EMU kits (4-TC/4-REP/Swindon units) are going to be rebuilt on ex Farish Mk 1 chassis with the brass overlays added, simply to get good running when I can get round to it
My best Mk 1 EMUs are still TPM inlays on Farish coach bodies with TPM resin cab ends which make up my 4-CIG/BIG EMU fleet, and I am very happy with these.

OMWB:
Worsley works 4-SUB shrunk to N gauge - if I can get this to look anything like my previous attempts in brass it will be superb.
Worsley works SR 20003 - ditto. But I really want a kit for 20001/20002!
GRCW Class 119. After much wondering about stretching the chassis of a 108, this is going to be a true composite of techniques: The centre coach will be mostly BHE components with Farish bogies and Farish seat inserts made to fit.  The end coaches will have BHE brass sides and BHE roofs (to keep the roofline shape similar) on Dapol 121/122 motorised and dummy donor chassis.  The bodies will use the plastic Dapol cab ends and drivers doors as moulded, and then the rest will be smoothed off and trimmed to support the BHE brass overlays and whitemetal coach ends.  I was lucky that Dapol brought out so many that the second hand EBay price for these donor chassis was more acceptable! I personally find the roof shape on the Dapol 121 a little flat, and so the slightly more domed BHE roofs blended into the Dapol 121 curved roof ends with milliput will be the way I will go on the roofs.

Given that I seem to have moved into a brass and plastic era, and i like the crispness that brass gives you, the 2-BIL just doesnt look crisp enough for me.  I have decided to hold off and see if the ex SUB de-icing units are produced, as I really do want to model 012 and 017 from Fratton. I hope those will be crisper than the current rendition of the 2-BIL, but for me I will be saving up for these de-icing units rather than the 2-BIL.

And there is enough on my workbench to keep me busy for a long while 

Best
Bob

Hi
Just a look TPM for their models,and they closed in January,which is a shame,their models were pretty good,I wonder if Electra Graphics could start doing some early EMU's they already do a 3 H set.

Mike

Hi Mike,

I already produce a wide range of Mk1-based Southern EMUs, including the HAP, EPB, CEP, CIG and VEP. DEMU-wise, I also do the Class 207 Oxted units.

It would be nice to do some older-types but these would probably need to be in conjunction with a third-party supplier who can 3D print the right bodyshells and ends - the Mk1 would probably not cut it. I'd love to have a crack at the 4-DD 

Quote from: Michael Hendle on October 13, 2013, 03:15:37 PM
Hi
Just a look TPM for their models,and they closed in January,which is a shame,their models were pretty good,I wonder if Electra Graphics could start doing some early EMU's they already do a 3 H set.

Mike

Just to let you know Bernard is still about, its just that he moved house around that time. If you PM him I'm sure he'll get back to you.

Quote from: captainelectra on October 13, 2013, 04:35:01 PM
I'd love to have a crack at the 4-DD 

Bogies are a complete pig. I did look at the drawings a bit and decide not right now !