Hi

Just had a e.mail from Kernow about a Dapol Kato trainset,consists of a Hall class loco,and 3 Collett Coaches,a circle of Kato Track and a Kato Controller,Price £199.00 only problem they have sold them all.

The name of the set is called Home Counties Commuter,they reckon to get some more in on Monday

Mike

Just seen that in a newsletter but didn't know they'd sold out.
Seems somewhat expensive compared to the same type of Farish starter set

The Dapol Hall sells for around £95, and the coaches are at minimum around the £19 mark each, so that's £152 right there.

That leaves a bit under £50 for the track and the controller. Is that good value?

I will make this observation about the Kato track -- it's genuinely designed to be a "train set" rather than the basis of a model railway. It clicks together and stays together, and almost never has problems with electricity being conducted properly all the way around. This contrasts with Peco SetTrack, which might look better ('might' being the operative word, as weathered Kato track can look very good indeed) but isn't really designed to be laid out on the carpet or table as a temporary layout. It doesn't click together nearly so well as Kato track, especially once pieces have been pulled apart a few times and metal fishplates lost their "bite".

It's hard to fault the Kato track as good for beginners. It ticks all the right boxes except, perhaps, looks. But even if you do go on to create a layout based on Peco track, the Kato stuff is still ideal for setting up quick running-in layouts, particularly if your main layout is an end-to-end design (remember, manufacturers now recommend running-in new models for 30-60 minutes in each direction, so having an oval layout you can bring out at a moments notice is invaluable). The reliability of Kato track also makes it good for maintenance, when you want to see how well (or not) a loco is working.

Basically, I'd say this is good value if you need the track and a controller. Less good value if you don't need either the track or the controller, in which case you can get the loco and the three coaches for quite a bit less.

Cheers, NeMo

Quote from: Michael Hendle on October 11, 2013, 04:42:43 PM
Hi

Just had a e.mail from Kernow about a Dapol Kato trainset,consists of a Hall class loco,and 3 Collett Coaches,a circle of Kato Track and a Kato Controller,Price £199.00 only problem they have sold them all.

The name of the set is called Home Counties Commuter,they reckon to get some more in on Monday

Mike

Given it promptly sold out I guess someone thinks its good value ;-)

I could see this sort of thing being marketed on the shopping channels. Ticks a lot of boxes e.g. robust track, easy to set up and dismantle, can fit into a much smaller space then OO, easily expandable (points with build in motors, bridges etc).

I'd have bought a set like this (but with a Voyager or FGW HST) if it was available when I was starting in N.

Ah, I think I was unclear. What I meant firstly is that Kato is designed to be set up and then taken apart, over and over, as required for a temporary train set. Peco track isn't (or at least, doesn't work as well if used that way). I didn't mean Kato track can't be used for a proper layout. Just that *as well* as proper layouts, it's designed to be just as useful for temporary train sets.

As for its value on a real layout, it's what I use, and having spent much money on Peco track (Setrack and Streamline) I've ended up using Kato and finding it much more reliable and pleasant to use. Mine is ballasted and weathered, and I think looks pretty good. I've been much influenced in this regard by seeing what American model railroaders achieve with Kato track.

But I do understand that compared to Streamline, it's often considered less realistic and perhaps less accurate for truly authentic British railway modelling. In short, I'm a Kato fan, not a critic!

Cheers, NeMo

Quote from: Arrachogaidh on October 11, 2013, 08:38:51 PM

Quote from: NeMo on October 11, 2013, 05:57:42 PM
I will make this observation about the Kato track -- it's genuinely designed to be a "train set" rather than the basis of a model railway.

It's hard to fault the Kato track as good for beginners. It ticks all the right boxes except, perhaps, looks. But even if you do go on to create a layout based on Peco track, the Kato stuff is still ideal for setting up quick running-in layouts, particularly if your main layout is an end-to-end design (remember, manufacturers now recommend running-in new models for 30-60 minutes in each direction, so having an oval layout you can bring out at a moments notice is invaluable). The reliability of Kato track also makes it good for maintenance, when you want to see how well (or not) a loco is working.

Mixed messages there. I think you will find that the Japanese would totally disagree with your first sentence, as you seem to do with your later observations. Surely the matter is how you model your railway scene and make the best of your chosen track system.

To rule out Kato out of hand as you have done is ridiculous.

Sorry, had to be said.

Likewise, I've seen some really scenic layouts done with Kato track. It requires different techniques, but can look really good and because the wiring is simpler you have more time to work on the scenery

I currently use Kato track for my off-scene areas and fiddle yard as it's easier to set up and means I can focus my attention on the scenic part of the layout.

The only part of the pack I'd have issues with is Dapol's Hall. The set uses 12" curves, which it can sometimes handle if you get a good one, but it has some serious design and reliability issues so it's a bit of a random chance you'd actually have a working train set.

Just for the record, I am a great Kato fan, despite the problems I have had (documented elsewhere.) If it had not been available when I was having my layout built I doubt I would ever have had a n gauge layout if I had to use Peco. Then I would not be a member of this forum.

Run

The kato track base is easy to bury and blend. The sleeper spacing is right and far better than Peco but the Peco code 55 has thinner rail and more tolerant points. Its also better at handling vertical unevenness and has flexible track which is a big win.

Kato is also electrically way simpler of course and is electrofrog without the warts.

Both IMHO have their place but for "I want to run trains now" Kato is excellent

Also available here. Think its a fantastic set espically if your just getting back into hobby or starting off

http://www.osbornsmodels.com//osborns-set-1-27669-p.asp

Here is my layout fully laid with Kato Unitrack.

http://gwizz.zenfolio.com/p1156419


First shown at Warley in 2011, I admit I still haven't had time to fully blend in some of the track but almost no visitors ever mention it. The discussion between operator and visitor at shows I have attended is almost always about how it looks OK and runs so well, with full automation and plug and play.

I am not a great fan of ballasting or wiring - accurate operation being my thing so Kato is perfect for me.

Did I hear modern mentioned.....................

http://www.osbornsmodels.com//osborns-set-2-27671-p.asp

I've been a Peco man for years and am stuck with it now. But from what I'm seeing on this forum I am beginning to think that if I were starting out now, I think I'd give Kato a go. The people on here who have done blending in work (and you know who you are) have done an excellent job and are certainly instrumental in swaying my train of thought (intentional pun).

The starter set sounds like an excellent idea.

IMO both track systems have their use. Kato Unitrack primarily for temporary track layouts where it is laid on carpets or tables and then taken up later. Plus it's great to quickly form an oval for testing and running-in trains.

However, I've never been convinced that it can be made fully realistic, and that is where properly ballasted Peco track (and now the FinetraX system) wins. The lower rail section/code and ability to use real ballast looks better.

I've yet to see a layout with Unitrack that is as realistically convincing, and where the ballast base doesn't look plasticky and/or doesn't tower excessively over the surrounding details. I guess the effort of blending it in (lowering it or building up around it) to disguise those issues is too much effort and is easier with Peco.

H.

Quote from: EtchedPixels on October 11, 2013, 10:25:04 PMand has flexible track which is a big win

Trivia mode: Kato do in fact have N scale flex-track.  Product code 21-000 in 808mm lengths.  It doesn't have moulded ballast and so doesn't really fit the Unitrack ethos, but I guess it's what the Japanese use if they want gentler curves in much the same way as folk over here use Peco.

I read somewhere that it's actually rebranded Atlas flex-track, although whether that's true I couldn't say!