Hi Mike,
I am still concerned that Dave would be asking from hopefully many people more money for something they don't want which will possibly detract from the performance if it wasn't a simple option - engineering in the option and offering some 'Sound Ready Equipped' is the sensible way to test the market for this I would have thought 

Regards, Gerry 

Hi Gerry

We will have to agree to disagree. See my earlier point about features we don't want...where does it stop? Spoked vs solid wheels? Lights or not? Decent coreless motors? etc

Sound equipped has the same issues as DCC equipped everyone has their own preferred decoder brand or their own preference of sound project. The only reason I can think you would want to do sound equipped is  if you can do it more cheaply than the retail price of the decoder, otherwise you are designing in the ease of fitting but not making a compelling reason to buy it sound fitted ie I can buy a sound decoder + loco myself and fit it.

Cheers, Mike

Quote from: Agrippa on September 13, 2013, 11:17:25 AM
I'm lost.... . Easier to follow a Midsomer Murders plot than this thread.

Agreed ... Red Death seems to be talking about different things to the rest of us !

Quote from: MikeDunn on September 13, 2013, 03:55:51 PM

Quote from: Agrippa on September 13, 2013, 11:17:25 AM
I'm lost.... . Easier to follow a Midsomer Murders plot than this thread.

Agreed ... Red Death seems to be talking about different things to the rest of us !

No need to get personal...

For a novice a DCC & Sound Ready Loco might well have an added appeal.

On a suitable sized loco the provision of space for the speaker (removable weight maybe) and PCB connection or socket would make Sound a possibility for people like me.

Ray

Quote from: red_death on September 13, 2013, 04:01:20 PM
No need to get personal...

I'm not.

Well, this is a can of worms, and the little blighters are well and truly out of it.

Just to be clear, I would only want a speaker included if the price difference were negligible. I quoted a fiver cos that's what I can buy them for. DJM will surely be able to buy them cheaper. Any chassis development should not be compromised for the speaker, far from it, we are talking about enhancing the loco, not detracting from the main essence, ie performance.
But, if a speaker can be pre fitted into the chassis, and the chassis effectively becomes the sound box, all the owner has to do is plug in a sound decoder. Simple.
My point was that speakers are so cheap that once you've designed a space for he speaker, why not just fit it? My whole point was that they are cheap enough to make almost no difference in cost, perhaps 50p might not e far off the mark? This is definitely not the same as the peco collet, we are not talking about a feature which costs 25ukp!

As an aside, in my opinion, I think there is enough room in the uk market for high(er) quality models that might cost more than dap/mann but less than CJM. A kind of European pricing policy, where models work consistently well, but you have to pay a bit more.
Before I get shot down in flames, I have said this is my opinion.

Cheers
Kirky

Gentlemen,the original idea was for Dave to incorporate a suitable space in which to be able to mount a speaker and sound decoder without the need for complete strip downs so as to grind and file the chassis.There would be no need to fit a speaker to the pcb either,but seeing as a 6 pin nem plug doesn't allow a sound decoder to be plugged in,the suggestion to do so is invalid anyway.Its only on sound decoders with 8 pins and above that will allow this to work anyway and seeing as an 8 pin nem socket is virtually the same width as an n gauge loco,this too is unsuitable.

As for the pcb,my suggestion is to produce one that is not going to fill the void above the chassis like on Farish models.The ones that Dapol fit are just a smidge smaller than a Loksound v4 micro so my theory is that if one of these smaller pcb's is employed,all that is required is for space to be provided for a sugarcube speaker and the owners choice of sound decoder.

There would be no need to design a different pcb for dc,dcc or dcc sound as all would be of a uniform design.I reiterate what I wrote yesterday,those who want to fit their loco with a sound decoder want to just plug one in,put a speaker in,pop the body back on and off they go,not have to spend a day or two studying,stripping the thing down,grinding the chassis,doing loads of soldering and then making fine adjustments to pickups and whatnot prior to final assembly.As I say,I don't mind doing this,I enjoy it in fact,its jist that most want to be able to just plug it in and off they go.

My opinion is that if a chassis block is designed with these considerations in mind,there would be no need to have separate prices for loco's ie dc loco only and dcc ready.The only price differences would occur if a customer wants either dcc fitted or dcc sound fitted,like oo gauge and o gauge manufacturers provide.

All I'm pointing to is to offer us the choice that larger scales have,not complete reengineering for the different applications.That would doom DJModels from the word go.

Pete

Yes, I agree Pete, you are quite right about the PCB and sockets. I was thinking it would be 8 pin, but that is maybe too big. However, it could be six pin with a couple of solder tabs for the speaker leads, a bit like Farish 60s or 66s PCBs. I agree though, it's not so simple as plug it in.

Cheers
Kirky

Dunno what all the fuss is about, real railway modellers don't need sound; sound is only for those who play trains.  

Quote from: red_death on September 12, 2013, 09:44:25 PM

Quote from: Zwilnik on September 12, 2013, 08:59:02 PM
One solution for the sound chips/speaker cubes might be to put them in coaches and/or trucks with pickups on the wheels. If it's in the first one after the engine I'm betting nobody would be able to tell that the sound's not quite coming from the right place at normal distance from a layout (especially when moving) and you get a lot more space to fit the speaker.

Except it doesn't work for locos running light engine 

Locos in N ready for sound would be great and a first for UK N (though we already have the odd unit ready for sound).

Cheers, Mike

You know, in four years watching Class 17s in the NE I never saw one light engine, they usually seemed to be pushing a brakevan or two (and occasionally pulling said brakevan) when not trying out on a train....

Les

Quote from: Les1952 on September 13, 2013, 06:44:02 PM
You know, in four years watching Class 17s in the NE I never saw one light engine, they usually seemed to be pushing a brakevan or two (and occasionally pulling said brakevan) when not trying out on a train....

Are you sure the brakevans weren't pulling the 17s?

Quote from: tutenkhamunsleeping on September 13, 2013, 07:38:59 PM
Are you sure the brakevans weren't pulling the 17s?

Quote from: Dorsetmike on September 13, 2013, 06:31:01 PM
Dunno what all the fuss is about, real railway modellers don't need sound; sound is only for those who play trains.  

That's OK then because that's all we're doing, ALL of us   


Paul

Quote from: Michael Shillabeer on September 11, 2013, 09:23:00 AM
Hello Dave

A small suggestion for a new RTR company...

Could packing be created that fits into Royal Mail's large letter format - 353mm x 250mm x 25mm

Its annoying having to pay parcel rate for something only a little bigger than 25mm thick!

Michael

At least Royal Mail has recently revised the permissible sizes for a small parcel which completely transform the economics of sending multiple N gauge items. Seems extremely good value to me.

http://www.royalmail.com/newsmallparcel

Edit:
I forgot to quote Michael Shillabeer's original recommendation about box sizes to comply with Royal Mail letter sizes. Makes my comment look out of place without the original message! Doh!

Quote now added