Please forgive me if I've put this in the wrong place but I couldn't really find a correct heading to post this under.
There has been much said on the forum by members concerned about the quality control (or lack of) from the main 2 protagonists i.e. Dapol/Farish.
Now, some of us will be attending the Show in September, and I would imagine there will be some hefty representation from those two manufacturers on their respective stands. This is just a germ of an idea and I don't really know how to go about it, but how about we present some form of document detailing the views of our membership about Dapol/Farish products top the guys on the stand? This could take the form of an overall wish list, the top 10 issues with products and, I stress this bit, what we DO like about the products coming off the production lines. I don't believe it would help our cause to just deliver a diatribe and walk away. Some statistics of our membership numbers, pages read etc to impress the Dapol/Farish sales guys would not go amiss too.
Please - the intent is not to just give them a kicking but to show we care passionately about what they do.
Who knows - maybe they'll even take note!?

About the only thing that British N gauge 'manufacturers' take note would be if Kato started making British outline in N.

Quote from: poliss on July 23, 2011, 05:16:01 PM
About the only thing that British N gauge 'manufacturers' take note would be if Kato started making British outline in N.

If Kato  started making British  outline Poliss  ebay would be flooded with Bach/farish    products

In theory, this is a good idea but the problem is , will we all agree and is it all down to the manufacturers ?
A loco that one person says runs well will, for someone else, be a poor runner.
And, it may well be down to the track/electrics of the individuals concerned.
Will the manufacturers take any notice. ??
It's a good idea and I truly believe that they should take more trouble to ensure that they are selling a good quality product.  As an example, I have 2 Dapol 45XX prarie tanks. One runs perfectly, the other is erratic.
For the price we are paying, I feel that we should expect locomotives to run well.

Quote from: port perran on July 23, 2011, 09:55:32 PM
In theory, this is a good idea but the problem is , will we all agree and is it all down to the manufacturers ?
A loco that one person says runs well will, for someone else, be a poor runner.
It's a good idea and I truly believe that they should take more trouble to ensure that they are selling a good quality product.  As an example, I have 2 Dapol 45XX prarie tanks. One runs perfectly, the other is erratic.
For the price we are paying, I feel that we should expect locomotives to run well.

Sorry to paraphrase your post. I agree with a lot of your comments, and the same applies if you buy a car, TV or whatever. The question is - what are we going to do about it? I have just gone through the 'Unread topics since my last log in' to find another 4 members detailing quality issues. Do we (a) stop buying (that's not going to happen) (b) pay more to buy somewhere that tests the loco in front of us (c) put up with same old c**p or (d) use our sheer numbers to convince these guys they are not supplying decent quality goods. If we do nothing, nothing will change.

Iam going to the show and on my behalf (not the forums) I will voice my opinions to the manufacturers. I will point out the things wrong with certain locos and the good things about certain locos and if we all did this on our visit to the show, im sure the manufacturers will get the message, however beware about being negative about products without any evidence as most manufacturers regardless will ignore you. Be constructive with the criticism as if you tell a manufacturer they are rubbish with no real reasons, they will just ignore you and carry-on. Back it up with facts and they will take note.

I`ve never had a problem with anythink i have brought, they always run well...some alittle noisey yes but hey, thats fine.
I think people always want want want, am sure ever item that leaves dapol or farish is tested before it is boxed up?
but then how long does it sit in the shop? if it sits for say over a year cause they cant sell it etc then it aint going to run perfect....
Only real reason i would give to send somethink back is if it doesnt run and is dead.

I think by giving a balance of both positive feedback along with our concerns with regards to quality control is potentially the way ahead as already stated. Over the last year I have been delighted with some locos and really irritated with other locos I have bought from both the leading manufacturers.

Some of the movement forward has been really positive: i.e. diesels with 6 pin DCC sockets which run brilliantly from both manufacturers,.

Some of the movement has proven to be effectively going backwards due to poor quality control and/or poor design preventing running decently  i.e. steam locos in particular from both manufacturers.

Quote from: matt-b on July 24, 2011, 04:31:51 PM
am sure ever item that leaves dapol or farish is tested before it is boxed up?

Far from it, and very clearly so in some cases as I've had models with bits missing,  A dapol 67 where the buffer beam was so badly fitted that it struck the track before the wheels etc.

Certainly the impression you get from reading (as with anything) is going to be misleading because most people who got a perfectly acceptable model didn't all post 'mine was ok' but no way can they all be tested properly. Modern design is focussed on making things that can't be mis-assembled instead. Testing is too expensive.

Personaly I have had very few problems and have generally been very happy with products I have bought. I suspect the many who have had positive experiences like me will be a silent majority.

I am not therefore convinced that the information fed back based on the experience of a (relatively speaking) a small sample (being this forum) will be truly representative.

Whiile I appreciate it would be done in a positive constructive way and with the best of intentions I would also suggest that "ambushing" the two main manufacturers as a Group at the International N Gauge Show would be unlikely to be well received or result in a constructive dialogue.

I do though agree that opening a dialogue with the Manufacturers is a good idea for the forum, I am just not convinced that TINGS is the place to do it.

However I think that feeding back experiences (good and bad) as individuals at TINGS would be a good idea - I most certainly intent to try and have a chat at both stands.

Roy

The reason British outline is so bad is because you don't complain enough. Some locos still have solid wheels for goodness sake.

To all those who have said that satisfied customers rarely post their satisfaction on the forum, I agree that in the current climate of angry posts, any positive post should be made. There have been a few, but then again too few to mention (eat your heart out Frank Sinatra).
For example, nearly every NGF owner of the Farish class 24 has praised it but, considering the wide range of headings in the review section, there are not that many satisfied owners of other locos. it seems. We appear to be quick to criticise but not to give due praise.

To suggest 'ambushing' Dapol/Farish might suggest we are cowboys - some souls may think it's the other way round.

from last years show
me and dapol
I have not put the swearing in, but I did let loose at the rep and it went some thing like this

at the Dapol stand

me: is Mr.----- here

dapol man: sorry no he is not

me: can I ask you some questions then

dapol man: yes certainly

me: what brain dead loon at your place thinks that there is not a demand for teak coaches

dapol man: sorry

me:I sent an e-mail to your firm asking when you will be releasing more teak coaches, the reply I got was "when there is a demand for them" I have rang god knows how many model shops trying to get teak coaches and in the past year have only got hold of 4, some of the shops did say that dapol is not the best firm to work with

dapol man: really what shops said that

me: if you think I am going to tell you that sunshine you are mistaken, as I got the feeling that dapol is a bit of a big headed firm that dictates to the shops what and how many units they can have

dapol man: what do you mean

me: is it not right that you send a model shop, months before a model is released,how many units they want

dapol man; yes it is

me: then why is it then, that when the model shop gets there order it has been cut by up to a third and the model shop that has taken advanced orders for the model has to let there customers down

dapol man: no answer given

me: do you know that one of your teak buffet coaches sold on e-bay for £45 plus the other week

dapol man: how much

me: you heard, how do you expect to sell locos if there is nothing to put behind the things, do you not put out a poll to the model shops to find out what they can sell or what they have been asked for

dapol man: that is a good idea

me: I am sorry it is you that is getting the flak over this but as Mr.----- is not here you have copped my watered down thoughts, you have got a fantastic product in the teak coaches but how the heck you expect to sell it, if you do not supply the stuff

dapol man: well the next release will be later on this year but it will be the c/c colours but we will look into re-releasing the teak coaches my be next year

me: I will not hold my breath

as you can see I will never make a diplomat
cloughie

Hi Poliss

I dont think British N models are "so bad". They have come on in leaps and bounds in recent years. All recent steam locos released from both manufacturers have see through spokes.

In fact the new style Farish 08 shunter has see-through spokes even though you can barely see them behind the outside frames!

What I do think we see (from both manufacturers) is a level of dissatisfaction derived from poor assembly, which could be improved.

Manufacturers have to find a balance though between what they can price a product at to sell it in any given market against cost of manufacture.

For the small batch sizes in the UK Market  (Very small by Japanese and American standards - for BachFarish only 1008 in a run of each livery) The tooling costs and assembly costs have to be recovered from of these small runs. It would no doubt be an extra cost that would have to be passed on to the consumer if more rigorous QC were introduced, a cost spread amongst those very small batch sizes. I guess the dilemma for the manufacturer is would we be prepared to pay it? If "yes" then is this the point we need to get across to manufacturers?

Regards

Roy

Quote from: cloughie on July 24, 2011, 10:04:09 PM
as Mr.----- is not here you have copped my watered down thoughts,

as you can see I will never make a diplomat
cloughie

Oh Cloughie - I would have loved to have heard the uncensored version