Quote from: Newportnobby on March 27, 2026, 10:57:10 AMAny road up, I'll be dust on the breeze before this would happen, I reckon

I am sure you will be keeping your watchful moderator's eye on us for many years to come Mick!

@Suffolk Rob in isolation I agree, the loss of Heljan products to retailers will for most model shops either be a minor inconvenience or if not stocked, have no impact at all.

It is the wider impact of the DTC (Direct to Consumer) model on the viability of model shops if it becomes more widely used by manufacturers that is the concern. Admittedly at this point it is only a theoretical concern and with Bachmann's ethos of not selling direct and only supplying bricks and mortar model shops there is hope it may not develop much further.

However with margins being squeezed there must be a temptation for some other manufacturers to consider the same approach over time. It may work for a while, but in my opinion it would in the end likely cause great harm to the hobby (and therefore their businesses) were it to become more widespread.

Roy

Quote from: Newportnobby on March 27, 2026, 10:05:07 AMA song that I like but I much prefer the Joe Cocker version

I didn't know he did this song. I just found it and wow, it is completely different. I don't recognize it at all.

Quote from: Roy L S on March 27, 2026, 10:28:28 AM

Quote from: Newportnobby on March 27, 2026, 10:11:25 AM

Quote from: Roy L S on March 27, 2026, 09:57:03 AMThe point is though that if there is a gradual direction of travel towards direct sales only, each manufacturer going down the route will mean less products for a model shop to stock making it harder and harder to survive. As we depend on those models shops for everything we need to build our model railways (which is way more than just locos and stock) then that WILL make a difference, there is a whole railway modelling ecosystem which depends on the model shops in some form.

I appreciate that, of course, Roy, but you make it sound as if without locos and rolling stock retailers will just shut up shop. I can't envisage that ever happening as they will have to 'cut their coat according to their cloth' with model railway stuff as, with most of them, that's not all they sell

I think many would do exactly that Mick (shut up shop) as locos and stock are (1) the "bigger ticket" items that are relatively high value for the space they take up on the shelf and (2) facilitate the ability to buy everything you need in a single place.

Consider that say a Farish V2, non-sound, even if discounted to £180 will probably provide a gross "profit" contribution somewhere in the region of £30 to the retailer. How many packs of Woodland Scenics clump foliage at £10 a pack (maybe £2 gross which takes up four times the space on the shelf) will it take to generate the same return?

It currently still works (just) because the first offsets the second, but if all a shop could stock is low ticket items, then the amount of shelf space needed (and the cost of it) given the level of stock turnover necessary to generate the same level of profit would make the whole business model unviable for a typical model shop given that all the big overheads are fixed costs.

Roy

I hear what you're saying, Roy but, unusually for me, I don't see such a doom laden future. OK, any model shop with 'Railways' in their name would have to change it and, undoubtedly, there would be many redundancies and reduction in shop size maybe but much depends on the owners. If they are dyed in the wool model railway people they would almost definitely shut up shop but if they are just dedicated retailers of modelling products I think not.
Any road up, I'll be dust on the breeze before this would happen, I reckon

This news does raise some interesting questions but, for me, mainly just as a casual observer of the OO scene.

I'll be interested to see where it goes, many elsewhere seem to think Heljan will become Accurascale's "Railroad" range but their MO doesn't seem to fit with many of the compromises in Heljan models (printed nose doors on a 4mm class 26 anyone?) Also thoughts elsewhere that the big 2 will need to change their pricing structure. Don't see that either, Branchline new tool diesels seem more a competitor for the main Accurascale range.

Heljan don't always have the retailer presence of other brand either. This was the rationale given when a few of their models appeared in the early days of the EFE rail development.

What does seem clear is that Accurascale are the leaders when it comes to self promotion(and nothing wrong with that). Meanwhile Bachmann carry on largely in their established way with good new models arriving with reasonable regularity, N included.

I suspect being unable to stock Heljan will be an annoyance for some retailers, especially those who had taken pre-orders, but this is not the biggest challenge the small independants have faced, not when compared to the growth in Internet shopping for example

Quote from: Newportnobby on March 27, 2026, 10:11:25 AM

Quote from: Roy L S on March 27, 2026, 09:57:03 AMThe point is though that if there is a gradual direction of travel towards direct sales only, each manufacturer going down the route will mean less products for a model shop to stock making it harder and harder to survive. As we depend on those models shops for everything we need to build our model railways (which is way more than just locos and stock) then that WILL make a difference, there is a whole railway modelling ecosystem which depends on the model shops in some form.

I appreciate that, of course, Roy, but you make it sound as if without locos and rolling stock retailers will just shut up shop. I can't envisage that ever happening as they will have to 'cut their coat according to their cloth' with model railway stuff as, with most of them, that's not all they sell

I think many would do exactly that Mick (shut up shop) as locos and stock are (1) the "bigger ticket" items that are relatively high value for the space they take up on the shelf and (2) facilitate the ability to buy everything you need in a single place.

Consider that say a Farish V2, non-sound, even if discounted to £180 will probably provide a gross "profit" contribution somewhere in the region of £30 to the retailer. How many packs of Woodland Scenics clump foliage at £10 a pack (maybe £2 gross which takes up four times the space on the shelf) will it take to generate the same return?

It currently still works (just) because the first offsets the second, but if all a shop could stock is low ticket items, then the amount of shelf space needed (and the cost of it) given the level of stock turnover necessary to generate the same level of profit would make the whole business model unviable for a typical model shop given that all the big overheads are fixed costs.

Roy

Quote from: Roy L S on March 27, 2026, 09:57:03 AMThe point is though that if there is a gradual direction of travel towards direct sales only, each manufacturer going down the route will mean less products for a model shop to stock making it harder and harder to survive. As we depend on those models shops for everything we need to build our model railways (which is way more than just locos and stock) then that WILL make a difference, there is a whole railway modelling ecosystem which depends on the model shops in some form.

I appreciate that, of course, Roy, but you make it sound as if without locos and rolling stock retailers will just shut up shop. I can't envisage that ever happening as they will have to 'cut their coat according to their cloth' with model railway stuff as, with most of them, that's not all they sell

A song that I like but I much prefer the Joe Cocker version

Quote from: Bealman on March 27, 2026, 12:57:55 AMSo you drag yourself upright and mutter, "That's ok" when in fact it's anything but.

I don't say it's OK. I moan about it but, then again. I'm a whingeing Pom

Quote from: Newportnobby on March 26, 2026, 10:29:14 PMOn the basis Heljan do not do N gauge, and Accurascale have very little interest in the 'proper' gauge (IMHO) this news doesn't really make a scrap of difference to me...........

.......unless - the companies I do buy from decide to drop their retailers in favour of direct sales, and I can't really see that happening as, for the most part, their retailers do so much for them and to bring all that back in house would increase their costs considerably

In isolation and at this point in time it may seem like it won't make a scrap of difference to an N modeller, or indeed possibly a OO one as the amount of Heljan stocked in a typical traditional model shop is limited. It may potentially have a different effect on the O Gauge modeller and in particular the specialist O stockists like Tower Models in the shorter term, but as I understand it, already (and the big discounts point to this) it was becoming more difficult to sell the O diesels without huge discounts suggesting a market shift.

The point is though that if there is a gradual direction of travel towards direct sales only, each manufacturer going down the route will mean less products for a model shop to stock making it harder and harder to survive. As we depend on those models shops for everything we need to build our model railways (which is way more than just locos and stock) then that WILL make a difference, there is a whole railway modelling ecosystem which depends on the model shops in some form.

Roy