Modelling Preserved Steam Support Coaches

[KiwiAlan]

I've recently become interested in the support coaches that run with preserved main line steam locomotives and wondered whether anyone here has modelled them in N gauge.

What started me looking into the subject was seeing vehicles such as 99953 (the NRM-owned Mk1 BSK used with Flying Scotsman) and 35457 (the Mk1 BSK commonly associated with Tornado). They add a lot of character and authenticity to a modern preserved steam train, yet they seem to be a relatively uncommon modelling subject.

I've discovered that Railtec produce transfers for some support coach numbers, including 99953.

However, looking at photographs of the prototypes, I'm wondering whether a simple renumbering exercise is enough. Many preservation support coaches appear to have evolved quite a bit from their original BR condition.

From what I've read, Mk1 brake vehicles such as BSKs, BCKs and BGs were originally fitted with the guard's roof periscopes, but a number of preserved examples appear to have had these removed during refurbishment. I've also noticed differences in underframe equipment, ETH connections, warning markings, window treatments and other details. Some vehicles seem to retain a fairly standard appearance, while others have clearly been altered to suit their support-coach role.

For those who have modelled support coaches:

• Which prototype did you choose?
• What modifications did you make beyond numbering and livery?
  
• Did you remove the roof periscopes?
  
• Were any window or underframe alterations needed?
  
• Are there any particularly good photographic references for preservation-era support coaches?
  

I'm also trying to work out the best starting point in N gauge. For 99953 and 35457, I'm currently looking at the Graham Farish range and wondering whether the 374-187E Mk1 BSK would be a better base model than the 374-199 Mk1 BCK. My instinct is that the BSK is the more appropriate starting point given the prototype vehicles, but I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has researched or built either coach.

More generally, I'd love to see photos of any support coach projects, whether for Flying Scotsman, Tornado, Sir Nigel Gresley, Clan Line or any of the other main line steam locomotives. They seem to be a fascinating corner of modern preservation modelling that doesn't get discussed very often.

Thanks in advance. I look forward to seeing what others have done and learning a bit more about how today's support coaches differ from the original Mk1 vehicles they started life as.

[Bealman]

An interesting question, and one I must admit I've never ever even thought about!

Like you, I look forward to replies.

[crewearpley40]

             
Alan

Interesting question

     
Vintage train support coaches—
often converted from British Railways Mark 1 passenger brake vehicles—provide a mobile base for service crews, carrying spare parts, tools, and mess facilities for mainline steam operations.

Here is a breakdown of their main purposes and notable examples in the UK:Functionality : They serve as crew break rooms, kitchens, mobile workshops, and equipment storage during long-distance, mainline r?ailtours.Locomotive

71000 "Duke of Gloucester": The BR Class 8 ?Steam Locomotive Trust purchased and restored a Mark 1 coach stabled at the Tyseley Locomotive Works to support its operations.Locomotive 60163 "Tornado":

This mainline steam locomotive is supported by its own E35457 Mk1 coach, and a highly detailed model version has been produced

Locomotive 45596 "Bahamas": The Bahamas Locomotive Society operates a Mk 2a ?support coach (No. 14060) which operates from the Keighley and Worth Valley Railway


                   
Vintage Trains uses converted BR Mk1 General Utility Vans (GUVs) and support coaches on their mainline steam excursions to house equipment, spare parts, and additional water tanks.


This support rolling stock extends their steam locomotives' operating range and allows them to bypass modern water towers on the rail network.

Key Facts About Vintage Trains' Support Fleet GUV Water Carriers: Vintage Trains (based at Tyseley Locomotive Works) utilizes authentic Mk1 GUVs—such as W96100—to carry large tanks of water to feed their express steam engines on long-distance tours


 Might be worth


Railtec Transfers https://share.google/aAY615metNXBvrrbB
https://www.railtec-models.com/catalog.php?type=5&gauge=2mm&theme=39


http://www.railtourinfo.co.uk/coach.html

[Adam1701D]

For Mk1 or Mk2 coaches acting as support coaches on the mainline, you would need to make sure they have an orange cant-rail stripe at gutter level, modern OHL warning flashes on the ends and toilet waste tanks installed.

Here are some pictures of Sir Nigel gresley's support coach, still running on BR1 bogies...

[crewearpley40]

For N gauge (2mm) modellers in the UK, orange cantrail stripes—which denote electrical warning limits near overhead lines on British rolling stock—can be sourced as ready-to-apply waterslide decals or thin self-adhesive strips.

The most popular options for upgrading N gauge locomotives and coaches include:Railtec Transfers

Offers multiple N gauge specific cantrail lining packs (such as Product 2mm-1008 and 2mm-1088) featuring ultra-thin, scaled orange warning lines.

Rainbow Railways: Supplies a generic N gauge Cant Rail Lines Transfer Pack containing multiple 20 x 150mm orange lines suitable for various BR and post-privatisation models.

Peter's Spares: Frequently stocks pre-sized Railtec Orange Cantrail Lining Decals in long continuous strips that you can trim to fit your specific coach or locomotive body length.Train-Tech /

 Upstairs Downstairs: Also lists Railtec Orange Cantrail Lining in their dedicated N scale detailing and spares sections.

Alternatively, many modellers choose to paint their own using a dedicated match like Phoenix Precision Paints "Cant Rail Orange" (Specification 81/500).


Railtec RT-2-1088 Orange cantrail lining Transfer –

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/railtec-2-1088-orange-cantrail-lining?


https://www.petersspares.com/p/railtec-2mm-1003-overhead-warning-electrification-flashes-decals-n-gauge

https://nebula.wsimg.com/eef2032150b62272c2ead3a497fd3a23?AccessKeyId=8C7C2C110638425F2686&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

BHE ft101
Cantrail lining
Part 6
Fao brian
Bhengauge@gmail.com

[RailGooner]

Support coaches for both Tornado and Sir Nigel Gresley are on the to-do list. I've done some very basic research. Haven't taken it any further yet. I'm focusing more on my aircraft modelling these days.

[njee20]

Chris your contributions are becoming a bit like Google's AI. Lots of words only vaguely related to what's being asked! 

I looked at doing E21249, Tornado's original one, but the unique window arrangement meant I basically couldn't be bothered! I also preferred the look with all carmine and cream, rather than having one maroon coach in the rake, even if prototypical.

[5944]

Chris your contributions are becoming a bit like Google's AI. Lots of words only vaguely related to what's being asked! 

I looked at doing E21249, Tornado's original one, but the unique window arrangement meant I basically couldn't be bothered! I also preferred the look with all carmine and cream, rather than having one maroon coach in the rake, even if prototypical.

E21249 is awkward as it has extra windows in the van end, grills on the sides, one side window half whited out, and various other underframe cases and boxes. Plus LED tail lights on the ends!

Generally though, they aren't too much modified externally, except the addition of toilet waste tanks nowadays. 21096 (60007's support coach - currently out of action have new tyres fitted) is I believe the only Mk1 currently running on BR1 bogies with roller bearings, rather than oil axleboxes.

[njee20]

Yes, I didn't choose an easy one, hence deciding not to bother. I think the easiest would probably to be 3D print a new body on a Farish underframe; with toilet retention tanks added. Last think I need is another project though!

[Newportnobby]

Chris your contributions are becoming a bit like Google's AI. Lots of words only vaguely related to what's being asked! 

To say nothing of being disrespectful in not giving attribution to the source of 'his' material.
Anyone can copy/paste

[Adam1701D]

If you need colour the cant-rail guttering orange, may I recommend using an AK Paint Marker. They are acrylic, so any mistakes can be easily wiped off with water.

Much easier than painting!

[Steven B]

I'm also trying to work out the best starting point in N gauge. For 99953 and 35457, I'm currently looking at the Graham Farish range and wondering whether the 374-187E Mk1 BSK would be a better base model than the 374-199 Mk1 BCK. My instinct is that the BSK is the more appropriate starting point given the prototype vehicles, but I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has researched or built either coach.

I've got a maroon BSK which is destined to become NRM's earlier support coach, 99950.

I'd always base the model on the same coach as the prototype - a BSK in the case of either of the NRM coaches (99950 or 99953). The passenger section windows on the BCK are different and the guards half has differently spaced doors and windows.

If you has a BCK you want to use then use the A1 Steam Locomotive Trust's BCK 21268 as inspiration.

For a modelling project, M35469 has one pair of luggage doors replaced with grills to allow air flow around the generator. Alternatively, for something a bit more involved try 80217 - a BSK that was converted by BR into a courier van by replacing one set of windows on each side with a roller shutter and plating over two other windows.

[EtchedPixels]

Mainly it's about picking one that nobody changed the windows on. Periscopes (and fingers) come off with a sharp blade. Underframe equipment is available as castings or etches from various sources, notably the 2mmSA or can be bodged up from bits of plasticard and the like given you are doing one coach not 15.

[eddief83]

As someone who models the 1980's its much easier as support coaches didn't have much if any modifications then 

I do have a maroon, a crimson & cream plus a chocolate & cream Mk1 brake (can't remember which are BSK or BCK) for use with steam tours - I have the full SLOA pullman set and want an intercity charter set similar to Mallard pulled in 1988 for the anniversary run.

The main one I want to do and it will be a full repaint is Gresley's support coach which was painted in 2 tone blue as per the Coronation coaches

[KiwiAlan]

As someone who models the 1980's its much easier as support coaches didn't have much if any modifications then 

You raise an interesting point. When did the practice of a dedicated, customised support coach actually start, rather than simply attaching a reasonably standard BSK or BCK behind the locomotive?

In the early preservation era and railtour days, my impression is that the support vehicle was often little more than a convenient brake coach for the crew and equipment. The heavily modified support coaches we see today seem to have evolved gradually as main line operations became more professionalised, locomotives spent longer periods away from base, and support crews started carrying significantly more tools, spares and onboard facilities.

In theory I'm modelling the autumn of 1988, so a fairly standard BR Mk1 would probably be the correct answer. However, occasional bouts of time travel permit the appearance of a visiting locomotive, which is how I've ended up down the support coach rabbit hole!