Ebay Is Dead To Me

[scottmitchell74]

Whether I'm searching for British or American image N Gauge/Scale items, these days buying new from shops is cheaper than 2nd-hand from Ebay.

What's happening!? 

Is there such a dearth in N? And if there is, why aren't manufacturers filling the gap?

I'm missing something.   

[Will_J]

From speaking to retailers, I've heard that used N is going through a bit of a boom. Demand is high and the prices are going up. You can also see this in recent Dapol "NQP" sales - demand for non runners is through the roof and the prices have almost doubled since their first NQP sales. But sales of new N are declining, with stock hanging around in inventory for quite a while and having to be cleared on sale. Meanwhile TT120 sales are growing rapidly though still a much small market overall compared to N. A lot of people are downsizing to TT from OO and a lot of newbies are starting with TT because it's well supported with fairly affordable trainsets.

Now, why this is happening is an interesting question and I don't have a firm hypothesis. It could be pressures on hobby budgets, it could be demand for out of production models.

But I'm reasonably confident in suggesting that the used N market reflects a lack of brand new popular prototypes at an attractive price point. But without more detailed insight, that's not a hill I'd want to die on.

It's interesting though.

[njee20]

EBay is dominated by retailers selling buy now items, often at inflated prices, and away from people selling their old models cheap in auctions.

I still have a few saved searches, and always look only for auctions. You still get some people starting things at higher prices, but there are still some good deals to be had at times.

High secondhand prices is obviously just basic supply and demand economics. I refuse to ever pay more than retail for any item, my recent highlight was a sound fitted Revolution 66 for £108.

[Roy L S]

Since the change that meant I could no longer link my sales to PayPal, I have stopped selling but do continue to occasionally bid and buy.

I continue to have a number of saved searches but rarely see anything pertaining to what I am looking for delivered in the resultant e-mails. A clear dearth of 101s and 108s in BR Green (the first being addressed by Bachmann) and those that come up way beyond what I am prepared to pay for a used item (doubtless others will!). A saved search for Dapol Blue Spot fish wagons brought up similarly thin pickings but again they have announced a further run with RRP at a shade over £16 so I'll wait...

In general on eBay asking prices seem to have increased even including for some pretty dire "spares and repair". To an extent I see this as a result of batch production, where long out of stock items that are sought after can demand high prices.

Not that it will change, but I think prices swing dependent on supply, so a batch of new N products hitting the market, after the initial period of restricted discount, finds it's own level, then as supply eventually reduces people take their chance on eBay with those items that remain in demand.

TT120? Oft mentioned, but currently still a small range and growing comparatively slowly, but as one would have expected of Hornby, they are exploiting their "Brand" and social media presence to promote it fairly aggressively making it appear "bigger" than it actually is. Quality? Based on the TT120 I have purchased models are at best competent rather than anything special, in many respects N are typically better quality.

Impact on N? At this point I would say minimal, over 3 years after launch the range remains pretty small (e.g. only one brake van) and appears in some cases is exploiting heavily discounted models (loss-leaders?) to grow market share which is not sustainable indefinitely. More anecdotally I know of nobody who has entirely abandoned N in favour of TT120 and why would they? The space saving advantages of N even over TT120 are significant, any layout in TT120 still requires significantly more space than N which if we look at an 5ft x 3ft N layout (15sq ft) means 3.75ft x 6.25ft or almost 10 sq ft more space! The difference is promotion and the perception it leads to.

Where will things be in 10 years time? As with almost anything impossible to predict, but I think it safe to say British N will still be around and well supplied by manufacturers. The bigger concern will be O Gauge, where I can see the decline of the "Boomer" generation with high disposable income and larger houses having a significant impact on the scale (if it isn't starting to already).

Roy

[Bigmac]

Ebay starting / asking prices have gone daft in recent years--but then so has the bidding.  Theres only a couple of locos i still want--they do come up but i simply wont bid above my set limit.

[njee20]

TT:120 seems dominated by 'train set' modelling at the moment. I think that's probably driven by the total lack of a coherent range. So it's people happy running a 66 with some 7-plank wagons alongside an A4 with tankers.

It'll be interesting to see how well Revolution's JNAs sell, as arguably the first 'big' wagon with a fairly premium price. The majority of my sales of 3D printed wagons are TT at the moment, way beyond N gauge.

I'm still not sure I see it cannibalising N gauge, nor do I believe it's actually that popular. that narrative seems to come only from retailers who sell TT.

[geofff]

My recent personal experience has been mixed. I have had a few items for sale that have sold for the only starting price - although one offer was above the start price. A few items have been relisted a number of times. Yet when buying, I have had a number of offers accepted.

The two items that I look for are the Dapol Class 22 and Bullied coaches - all scarce and as you say seem to have a high price tag.

[ntpntpntp]

Ebay's always been my main source as I appreciate the global marketplace, but my frequency of purchasing has reduced in recent times.  That's not because of pricing, there are always quality bargains to be found if you're patient and diligent. 

For me it's simply that I'm in the very fortunate position of having acquired examples of just about everything I want, plus being left a late friend's similarly large collection.   Nowadays I'm more on the lookout for unusual "artisan" models from the small limited run makers of things that are not available RTR.

[TeddytheSpoon]

While I haven't been looking for anything particularly rare on eBay recently, I've found the experience of shopping on there to be slightly grating - you need to be quite diligent to spot the deals.

I've seen a similar thing happen with my other vice, which is LEGO sets. The last decade or so has seen second-hand prices for some sets go absolutely bananas, and I suspect it's down to an increasing number of people treating it as an investment. Certain people have seen it as a way of making a quick buck, rather than something to be enjoyed, and the Internet makes it easier to find the gullible ones willing to pay the inflated price. It boils my p- er, I mean, it annoys me greatly, and I wouldn't be surprised if certain people treat model railways the same way.

Either way, I do prefer to buy stuff from model shops than on auction sites. You may not get the juiciest deal, but they're generally pretty honest about what you get, and are more thorough with testing etc. Clark Railworks and Jane's Trains have both provided me with some very reasonable second-hand rolling stock.

[Woodenhead]

I'm still not sure I see it cannibalising N gauge, nor do I believe it's actually that popular. that narrative seems to come only from retailers who sell TT.

And social media 'influencers' heavily allied towards Hornby and TT120

[Bingley Hall]

It will be interesting to see if Ebay dropping seller fees will have any impact?
I've avoided selling or buying from Ebay for a decade or more, but my try selling a few things again.
When it comes to secondhand prices, Rails of Sheffield currently have a pre-owned 'Peak'for sale for just 4 quid less than a brand new Rapido one will cost you. Shades of the Hatton's work-experience kid in reverse

[njee20]

The fee model changed a year ago, I'm not sure it's made any difference. It certainly didn't for me, I just adjusted all my prices to compensate for the fee transferring to the buyer.

[woodbury22uk]

Since the change that meant I could no longer link my sales to PayPal, I have stopped selling but do continue to occasionally bid and buy.

Roy

Paypal has reappeared as a payment option for me, which coincided conveniently with restocking on Lipo batteries not available at reasonable prices from normal retail outlets.

[Ben A]

It'll be interesting to see how well Revolution's JNAs sell, as arguably the first 'big' wagon with a fairly premium price. The majority of my sales of 3D printed wagons are TT at the moment, way beyond N gauge.

I'm still not sure I see it cannibalising N gauge, nor do I believe it's actually that popular. that narrative seems to come only from retailers who sell TT.

Hi all,

The TT:120 JNAs have sold well enough that we are developing another wagon and a powered model.

But in N we are developing significantly more, and N sales are still significantly higher.

Both, however, are still dwarfed by OO which is where the bulk of the market remains.

My experience is that the TT customers are either new to the hobby (and in my view TT:120 is a very attractive scale; offering the benefits of a small size with more 'heft' than N) or primarily OO modellers looking for a smaller side project but who still believe N to be stigmatized by the 'cake decoration' misperception.  Often this is because they haven't actually looked at modern N models and seen that in many cases they are superior to the comparable TT or even OO offerings!

cheers

Ben A.

[Bealman]

Sorry, Ben, but I don't agree with the 'cake decoration' view. I have been to exhibitions when I'm convinced N gauge models look more realistic. In fact on a trip to England I commented to @Newportnobby of this parish that OO stuff looks like plastic toys compared to N.

But, as with so much in life, the eye of the beholder, I guess. I have certainly encountered people here in Australia who would not give N gauge a chance to even show it's face. I'll name them too - BRMA, The British Railways Modellers of Australia. Shocking set of scale snobs.