BR (Western Region) Brake Vans

[port perran]

My layout covers the period, generally, from 1956 to 1966 and is based on the sea wall at Teignmouth.

My chosen period allows me to run typical freight trains, long and short,  of the period but I'm unsure of the correct brake vans to utilise.

I have a number of ex GW Toads which I can, I think, use for my chosen period and I also have several of the BR Standard, 20T I think they are, brake vans.

Were these latter types termed pillboxes?

So, in my chosen period were both types of van still in regular use or had the Toads started to be phased out?

I'd be grateful to hear people's thoughts.

Regards
Martin

[Steven B]

Th classic GWR Toad were baned from long distance freight trains in 1957 as they didn't have the side bucket look-outs. They'd still be seen on local trains any were popular with engineers as they had a large cabin with one less draughty door than the BR standard van.

Pillbox was generally the name given to the SR brake van that wad similar in design to the LNER/BR standard.

[port perran]

Th classic GWR Toad were baned from long distance freight trains in 1957 as they didn't have the side bucket look-outs. They'd still be seen on local trains any were popular with engineers as they had a large cabin with one less draughty door than the BR standard van.

Pillbox was generally the name given to the SR brake van that wad similar in design to the LNER/BR standard.

Thank you Steven @Steven B .
So, if I understand correctly, I'm ok to run toads on local or trip freights or engineering trains but on long/longer distance workings I should be running the Standard BR design?

I need to up my compliment of the standard variety a little then 

[Newportnobby]

As I model the same era and similar location this thread will be of interest to me as well so, thanks, Martin.
Seems the 'pillbox' van was built by the SR and weighed in at 25T as opposed to the BR 20T. This gave a slightly better ride. With shared routes and inter regional traffic there's no real reason why you couldn't have them on your layout

https://www.hattons.co.uk/directory/versiondetails/2651/graham_farish_n_sr_pill_box_brake_van

[Bealman]

Me too, cheers, Martin. Liberal lashings of Rule 1 here, mind you!

[martyn]

I havent any relevent photos to say whether the ex LMS Stanier type brake vans as modelled by Farish worked on the WR or not, but they were seen on the ex GE section lines in the 60s.

I also have a photo of the Pillbox type on a pick up goods on the Harwich branch, so they also strayed from home areas.

Martyn

[PLD]

The other thing to think about (regardless of region) is what brakes, your brake van has...

By your period, most faster-timed and long-distance freights would be vacuum-braked requiring a 'fitted' brake-van.

BR made it easy to tell which were fitted by adopting the LMS & LNER convention of painting them Bauxite with non-fitted (hand-brake only) vans being grey. - Even the Western (mostly) conformed on that one!

[EtchedPixels]

Some faster services like milk trains and for a while freightliner (after some dire initial experiments) also sometimes used bogie full brake or similar stock for the guards compartment.

[Cols]

Some of the ex-GWR/BR(WR) Toads were "through-piped", i.e, not fitted with vacuum brakes - just the hand-brake, but they could be run in a "fitted" train, thus preserving the vacuum's continuity.

My question is: were these through-piped Toads painted bauxite or grey in BR days?

Regarding the use of the ex-LMS brake vans, I can clearly recall seeing them occasionally on the Newport to Ebbw Vale iron ore trains on the Western Valley line, the BR standard type was also employed on the mineral (coal or iron ore) trains in the Valley, however the ex-GWR Toad did seem to predominate. Certainly, in the Bristol area, the ex-LMS brake vans seemed to be as common as the ex-GWR Toads, as was the BR standard type based on the LNER design.

Another question: did the ex-SR "Queen Mary" bogie brake vans frequently work off the Southern Region? A retired Southern Goods Guard once told me that they were rather jealously guarded and were kept to the Southern, "...as they were the very best brake vans ever to run on BR!"

[PLD]

My question is: were these through-piped Toads painted bauxite or grey in BR days?

Per the manual, through-piped vehicles were painted Bauxite because a limited number could be included in a fitted train (IIRC 1 in 4 vehicles), but the brake pipes and hoses were painted white Vs red pipes and black or red hoses on fitted stock.

[Newportnobby]

Just checked and I have 25 brake vans including:-

7 x BR 20T standards
4 x Sharks
2 x Queen Marys
3 x SECR (1 of which is the Dance Hall version)
4 x Toads

A right mixture of bauxite, grey and black

[chrism]

Just checked and I have 25 brake vans including:-
7 x BR 20T standards
4 x Sharks
2 x Queen Marys
3 x SECR (1 of which is the Dance Hall version)
4 x Toads

Jeepers - do you have space for any non-brake freight stock, or do you just run brake van rides?

[Roy L S]

Just checked and I have 25 brake vans including:-
7 x BR 20T standards
4 x Sharks
2 x Queen Marys
3 x SECR (1 of which is the Dance Hall version)
4 x Toads

Jeepers - do you have space for any non-brake freight stock, or do you just run brake van rides?

I had forgotten that I have two EFE Sharks as well as all the others!

[Newportnobby]

Just checked and I have 25 brake vans including:-
7 x BR 20T standards
4 x Sharks
2 x Queen Marys
3 x SECR (1 of which is the Dance Hall version)
4 x Toads

Jeepers - do you have space for any non-brake freight stock, or do you just run brake van rides?

The 25 are part of the 340 wagons I have

[Bob G]

The 25 are part of the 340 wagons I have

Phew. I thought for a minute you had more than me