More newbie questions

[Wolfie]

OK gang, I've done a lot of research and so this is the plan...

I'm going to use Setrack curves and Streamline straights and points.

I still want to do my local station, but I'm having difficulty finding somewhere to build it as its very long and thin. The best I'm going to be able to do is use an 8 x 4 baseboard to do it any kind of justice This would create a working space of 6' x 2'3" with the rest of the space taken up with curves at each end and 1'9" behind the scenery to make up trains and complete the loop. I simply don't have that kind of room anywhere. Even then I'll lose a number of scale yards off of one end.

So the contingency plan is to make something smaller eg 4 x 4 or 4 x 3 and use a track plan I like.

Either way, I'd like answers to the following.

1. How far apart do you place parallel lines and is it the same on curves?

2. What are the differences/uses of regular, medium and long sets of points?

3. What is a 'frog'?

4. If I use 'electrofrog' points does that mean that both rails beyond the points are not electrically live?

I'm sure I'll think of a few more once I've hit 'enter' 

[njee20]

1. It depends. Peco Streamline spacing is ~27mm, and set track is ~35mm. Peco do a plastic gauge to keep this. Streamline spacing is closer to scale, but will need opening up on curves to avoid stock colliding. Set track spacing can be maintained throughout, it's far enough apart that stock won't collide. If you're using streamline points then you'll naturally have the closer spacing, and you'll need to just manage the spacing on curves. You may want to plan to do this 'off scene' to avoid it looking a bit odd.

2. space saving. Real points are huge, use the longest you can get away with; they'll look and run better. Bear in mind in code 80 streamline they all have a different crossing angle, so any crossovers must be a 'pair'; you can't mix a medium and a long and still maintain parallel running lines.

3. it's the bit of the point in the centre, where the rails meet. It's normally called a common crossing, "frog" is modeller parlance:



4. other way around - if you use electrofrog points the frog is metal and therefore the whole point is live, and you must use insulated joiners to stop short circuits (and ideally some sort of switch to power and change polarity on the frog rather than relying on the blades conducting). On insulfrog the frog is plastic, so insulated joiners aren't necessary. Very marginally easier to wire up, but at the expense of running quality. I'd go electrofrog if you can (ie you're not using set track points).

[ntpntpntp]

@njee20 has answered everything well.

I'll just add, always go for Electrofrog points if you want to ensure reliable slow running of short wheelbase locos.  Here's an extreme case: this little narrow gauge shunting tractor is so short it was necessary to fit this Setrack Insulfrog with a 3rd party live frog otherwise it would totally lose power!


I've used Electrofrogs exclusively on all the scenic parts of my layouts since the 1980s.  Yes I always add a polarity changeover switch powering the frog to avoid relying on the point blades for continuity.    As a testament to the reliability of this approach, the original part of my current exhibition layout was built in 1995/6 and still works perfectly after literally dozens of shows over the years.

Note that Insulfrog and Electrofrog points both have a "power routing" effect where a loco will only run on the track to which the point is set. Electrically they work slightly differently:  Insulfrogs cut power to the rail on the open point blade, whereas Electrofrogs set both rails to the same polarity* so there's no voltage differential and the loco doesn't move.
*That's why you have to add isolating rail joiners to Electrofrogs *if* you have a power feed further along, otherwise you get a short circuit.  It's a simple "rule" you soon learn and after that using Electrofrogs is no more difficult than Insulfrogs. 

Peco's newer Unifrog points (in N currently only one type and it's code 55 rail not code 80) keep both routes live all the time. That's great for DCC users but can be a nuisance for old DC layouts, plus you have to fit a frog polarity switch if you want reliability as good as Electrofrog (if you don't do this the Unifrog is no better than an Insulfrog).

[Newportnobby]

I totally agree electrofrogs are the way to go, especially as it rules out set track points (which I  wouldn't touch with someone else's bargepole).
That leaves code 80 medium or long points and any stock will be fine on those

[Firstone18]

I agree with all the above. I have used insul-frog points on my layout as I had some from a previous layout; this was not a good idea! Some of my vintage stock caused problems with shorting between the switch rails at the frog end as I'd mistakenly back fed power when I converted the layout to DCC. Fairly easy to solve for me as in a yard, but it would have been much less bother if I'd just forked out for electro-frog points!
My suggestion to all new to model railway-ing is to start simple and use it as a learning exercise. If you have a club you can get to, then I strongly recommend you join; I found doing so invaluable when I started back with model railway-ing myself.
HTH.
Cheers 

[jpendle]

And if you haven't got one already buy yourself a multimeter.

It will be well worth it.

Regards,

John P

[Wolfie]

Thanks lads. Ok just to tidy up a couple loose ends. Is the 35mm spacing between tracks from centre to centre, or outer edge to inner edge.

As far as the points go, I'd already planned extra power supplies to different parts of the layout so there's only the points to consider. Is it strictly necessary to change the polarity each time they are used. I can see how it would be easily done with a SPDT switch, but you'd need one for each set of points with all the attendant extra wiring. And remembering to throw the switch each time.

[Wolfie]

And if you haven't got one already buy yourself a multimeter.

It will be well worth it.

Regards,

John P

Yes I have a good auto-ranging multimeter I use in my capacity as Mr Fix It at the local repair cafe.

[njee20]

Thanks lads. Ok just to tidy up a couple loose ends. Is the 35mm spacing between tracks from centre to centre, or outer edge to inner edge.

As far as the points go, I'd already planned extra power supplies to different parts of the layout so there's only the points to consider. Is it strictly necessary to change the polarity each time they are used. I can see how it would be easily done with a SPDT switch, but you'd need one for each set of points with all the attendant extra wiring. And remembering to throw the switch each time.

It's track centres.

Usually people will use a motor with an auxiliary switch, or wire in a microswtch directly operated by the motor. You can't have a completely separate switch as you'll have a short each time it ends up out of sync. The changeover needs to  happen as the blades move, unless you chop the points up to completely separate the frog from the blades. Some people do this, but I wouldn't in N. More likely to do damage than benefit.

[ntpntpntp]

Usually people will use a motor with an auxiliary switch, or wire in a microswtch directly operated by the motor.

... and if you're using manually operated points then the SPDT switch becomes the "lever" for wire-in-tube style of operation