4-6-0 thread

[Dorsetmike]

Still no RTR Southern 4-6-0s just two kits BHE N15, and Langley S15, an H15 can be made from either of these using a chassis with scale 6' drivers, a Nelson could be hacked from a Scot or Jubilee. Of the Drummond 4-6-0s only the T14 lasted for any length of time, I remember seeing an occasional one, the last one was scrapped in about 1951.
I often wonder who has my old Nelson, it probably found it's way onto Ebay or on sale at a show, I let someone do a refurb  on it and a few other SR locos in exchange for a load of chassis, bodies and other bits  I know an H15 found it's way onto Ebay so assume others did I never saw any or the requested refurbs returned, including a Nelson and Arthur as well as the H15

[Le Night ferry]

.
@Le Night ferry here is a Foxhunter King kit built 2026. I'm well pleased with it! It's built on a China chassis

King edward 2!
One of my favorite locomotive.

[Le Night ferry]

Dapol had made lots of GWR 4-6-0s, like hall, grange and (older and newer) manor class.
What if they release it-GWR 6000 King George V with its bell.

[PLD]

In the last 5 years or so, we've had 3 different proposals for a King seeking expressions of interest.

The only one who shared any information claimed to have reached 30-somthing percent of the numbers needed to be viable; we can assume the others achieved less than that...

That strongly indicates that the supposed demand is not there, just a few albeit rather vocal modellers, unless you can provide irrefutable evidence otherwise...

So for those who state a desire for a King, the question has to be did you submit an expression of interest for any/all of the proposals?; and if not why not?? Was it an aversion to the suppliers, a mistrust in their funding methods, the price point or something else??

[Steven B]

DJ Models, KR Models and who else for the King?

Personally, I think it would sell, but then it's not my money being invested (and I might think differently if it were)!

[Bigmac]

would a retooled King sell ?

weve had 3 incarnations of Hall
3 manors
2 castles
Grange
King----so a new one is long overdue.

[PLD]

DJ Models, KR Models and who else for the King?

Personally, I think it would sell, but then it's not my money being invested (and I might think differently if it were)!

I had Hattons in mind, but thinking about it was that a tie-in  with DJ (on one a re-hash of the other)?

[PLD]

would a retooled King sell ?

As said above, the outcomes of recent calls for expressions of interest (which are the only solid evidence we or potential manufacturers have to go on) would suggest not...

If you (or anyone) wants to persuade a manufacturer otherwise, a lot of evidence to the contrary will be needed...

[Wrinkly1]

I'm one of those who have hesitated. I have many of the other 4-6-0 locos but like most of the steam-based layouts I've seen at shows, my layout is of a modest rural town. The king class were only used on 3 routes (Paddington to Wolverhampton, Plymouth or Bristol) so they don't feature on my wish-list.

[Steven B]

I had Hattons in mind, but thinking about it was that a tie-in  with DJ (on one a re-hash of the other)?

Hattons announced one in OO in September 2014, probably via DJ Models but it was quickly dropped as Hornby released/annouced an updated model not long after.

The Hattons range had about 15 different models in it - with variations of chimney and cab height. I believe neither N Gauge model (DJ and KR) was going to have quite the same level of variation.

Would it sell? I think so - we've seen LMS twins and Deltic from Bachmann, class 41 Warship from EFE and the prototype HSDT from Dapol.

There are big passenger locos for the LNER (several!), LMS and SR so I still think it would sell even if in real life it was route restricted. If nothing else, the inside/outside bearing bogie makes it looks somewhat different to any other GWR 4-6-0.

Compared to say an A4, roughly the same number were built (31 Kings vs 35 A4). The King had a longer life. 1927-62 cf. 1935-66). The A4 wins on number of liveries - four pre-nationalisation (silver, blue, green and war time black) and two BR for the A4 although GWR had variations on tender lettering.

[Roy L S]

DJ Models, KR Models and who else for the King?

Personally, I think it would sell, but then it's not my money being invested (and I might think differently if it were)!

I had Hattons in mind, but thinking about it was that a tie-in  with DJ (on one a re-hash of the other)?

No, Hattons were collaborating with DJM for a OO King which didn't come to fruition but there was never an agreement with Hattons for one in N, which is why Dave Jones ended up trying to crowdfund it under the DJM banner himself (and sadly as it never happened a fair few people lost money).

The only N locomotive Hattons ever proposed was the LMS Garratt which was pretty ambitious as a first N project (and only proposed because their OO one did so well which shows a lack of understanding of the N market).

As far as I am aware, the only Kings that have actually been delivered are the Foxhunter kit, and the Farish (Poole) RTR. RTR models were also proposed by DJM and later KR Models (with many saying KR had resurrected the DJM CADS which was denied).

My personal view is that the King would make a nice model and any addition to N is to be welcomed, but against it sadly is very likely (and possibly illogically if no money asked for up front) some people's experience of losing money on the DJM model, plus it's very limited route availability (Double Red) and the reality that the Castle (of which Farish produce a lovely model) could undertake probably 90% of the tasks that would be asked of a King in the real world.

Much more useful (in my opinion) will be the soon to arrive GW Mogul which will then provide a fairly well balanced stud of locos in N with current availability, from 64xx through 57xx, Large Prairie, Mogul, Hall, Castle and a Manor still to come.

Roy

[port perran]

I, for one would love a King.

I have two GF ones, one in blue livery with single chimney, and one in green with a double chimney.

Both run really well but look rather dated so a new version would go down well as would a County to complete my fleet of sea wall 4-6-0s.

Plus, of course, not a 4-6-0 but a 47xx 2-8-0 would be the icing on the cake.

[trkilliman]

Couldn't agree more with you Martin.

The GWR/W.R. is said to be the most modelled, so sales potential must be rather high?

I'd hoped for one of those you mention appearing in yesterday's Farish announcement.

I'll buy another Hall when the Hawksworth tender version arrives. Maybe we have to wait for these before anything else GWR/W.R.

I have to wonder how sales have been with the recently released Hall class?
Purchased two and very happy with them.

[Newportnobby]

Despite a mainly WR bias I've never hankered after a 'King'. I never saw one at Oxford in my spotting days and here's what Google A.I. has to say.......

The 30-strong King class (4-6-0) carried a heavy "Double Red" route classification due to their 22.5-ton axle load (the highest of any British 4-6-0). Because of these strict weight and civil engineering limits, they were generally restricted from routes like the Oxford-to-Worcester (Cotswold) line and standard local turns.

[Ensign Elliott]

My two top "wants" are a King and a 10xx County.

I don't really hold with the thinking that "the Kings are unsellable because a one man band company tried to produce one and went bankrupt". I'm guessing that there are many people who would like a King and who didn't have anything to do with the previous attempts to make one and certainly didn't put money up front.

Personally I'm a bit old fashioned and avoid these small one man band, crowdfunding things. I prefer to just buy what Farish, Dapol etc release. 

Considering we now have relatively obscure things like D600 Warships of which there were only 5, and Baby Deltics of only 10, I would think that the WR's top express passenger loco of a fleet of 30 would be a good seller, especially with the amount of WR layouts there are out there.

The Kings were around for 35 years and ran Paddington - Plymouth, Wolvs, Bristol etc.. so a good chunk of the WR mainlines. The D600 warships were around for 10 years and spent most of that West of Plymouth...   

If Farish released one tomorrow, I'm sure they'd sell as well as the castles and halls.