BR (ex-LNER) Steam Locos in Operation 1955-68 & the N Gauge Models

[martyn]

@icairns

Sorry again, I must check my sources before posting.

It is a V1 that thebrighton built, not LNER L1, and a beautiful model it is;

http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/Image-Pages/Image_N_LNER-V1.htm?LMCL=aSIrQr&LMCL=CbcxM4

Langley still produce the former GCR L1, later reclassified L3 when the Thompson variety was built, but that's on your list anyway.

I only have vague memories of talk of an ABS/Beaver L1, I've certainly never actually seen one, and don't know if they did in fact get made. If it did, the same memory links it to using a Minitrix 2-6-2 chassis, but I really don't know.

Can't help at all on the GEM J39.

Worsley also lists other locos in N;

http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/N/n_gauge_steam_locomotives.htm

The 'Jersey Lily' was the C4 GCR Atlantic.

In 2mm, he lists GNSR class V= LNER class D40, and GNSR class S= LNER lcass D41.

Martyn

[martyn]

Later;

Ref my previous post, ignore links to the Worsley C4, D40, and D41; these are outside the time frame created by Ian.

They may be of use to some-one, though.

Martyn

Correction, some D40 lasted into the chosen period, but D41 all gone.

M

[martyn]

Ian:

There is a J15 on your list by Recreation21.

This is not the ex GER loco but the Irish GSWR class.

Martyn

[icairns]

Hi, @martyn:

Thank you VERY much for your diligence in replying to this thread.  Here is some information that I can provide.

(1) Ian Kirk Models (by this time no longer Westwater & Kirk) produced a plastic kit for an LNER V1/V3.  This kit was reviewed in the 3/74 edition of the N gauge Journal (see attached file).  I do not believe that this company ever produced a kit for a Thompson L1.

(2) Beaver made the following white-metal kits:

      N.459 LNER L1 2-6-4T (to fit a modified Minitrix 2-6-2)
      N.460 LNER L3 2-6-4 T (to fit a modified GF 0-6-0PT chassis)

It is interesting that these two 2-6-4T loco kits were designed to fit on different chassis.  I have attached a page from the ABS/Beaver price list from 2006-7.  I do not recall ever seeing these models.  I do know that when Daryle Toney (John Day Models) acquired the Beaver range of kits from the estate of Adrian Swain (ABS Models), he said that the moulds for the L1 and L3 were missing.  Were they ever produced?  I don't know but I will keep them on my list until further proof emerges, one way or the other. 

(3) Thanks for correcting the error regarding the J15.  I thought it looked a bit funny for a GER loco but I did not read the small print.  I will delete it from my list.

Ian

[Roy L S]

Interesting Ian, the L1 using a Minitrix Ivatt is not a surprise, I know that Stevie DC used the Farish Ivatt 2MT for the 3D printed one he designed and he will always carefully select the most suitable commercial chassis available.

I have never seen either ABS L1 or L3 over many years of modelling, either in kit form or made up, my personal thinking is that neither made it into production.

Regards

Roy

[martyn]

Ian, congratulations on an excellent piece of research. Well done indeed for finding some of the references.

Mine is relying on memories of forty odd years ago, and is therefore a bit suspect!

I used to have a W+H (?) or W+T (?) catalogue from the late 70s, which listed many now long disappeared items. Unfortunately, I can't now find it, but if I do, I'll update as necessary. The firm was based near Baker St underground station (well, about 20' walk) and as well as their own products, they seemed to act as distributors for many others and also stock a lot of models in the shop.

I'm sure the Hon Gen Sec of the Society of the time told me about the ABS L1, knowing of my ER interest, but again, it could be faulty memory. Another supplier of the time was Precursor models, I think, but if this is correct, it was mainly wheels and gears.

Martyn

[Richard Taylor]

<snip>
I used to have a W+H (?) or W+T (?) catalogue from the late 70s, which listed many now long disappeared items. Unfortunately, I can't now find it, but if I do, I'll update as necessary. The firm was based near Baker St underground station (well, about 20' walk) and as well as their own products, they seemed to act as distributors for many others and also stock a lot of models in the shop. </snip>

W&H - Walkers & Holtzapffel. Their catalogue of the lines they manufactured & distributed was an eye-opener to me as a young N gauger in the 1970s.  More info here: [url=http://www.binnsroad.co.uk/railways/wandh0/index.html]http://www.binnsroad.co.uk/railways/wandh0/index.html[/url]

W&T - Wyatt & Tizard. IIRC they were based in the midlands, and produced white metal kits & scenic accessories, including a few N gauge wagon bodies - but no loco kits I don't think.

Gosh, these names take me back!

Richard

[icairns]

(1) GEM LNER J39
After a bit of digging, I came up with the following information.  It is believed that the original J39 patterns for this kit may have been made by the late Phil Kerr.  These patterns were owned by John Warner (ex-NGS Chairman) when he ran N Gauge Lines.  The patterns were then acquired by Terry Henson and were made part of the GEM/Fleetline range.  Then they passed to Lychett Manor Models when they acquired the GEM/Fleetline range.  Originally, two versions of the J39 (flared tender and flush tender) were available from this source although by 2021 they were no longer listed on the Lychett Manor Models' website.  The GEM/Fleetline range has recently been acquired by John Day Models (http://www.johndaymodels.co.uk/) and this is noted as such in the "What's New" section of the website.  Future availability of the GEM/Fleetline loco kits will be advertised on the website. 

(2) Beaver Thompson L1 and GCR Class L3 kits
In addition to the 2006/7 ABS/Beaver price list previously posted, I have also obtained a copy of the 2013 price list.  Both price lists show the L1 and the L3.  I do not think a company would list locos in their price lists spanning 7 years if the locos were not produced.  I also contacted Daryle Toney (the current owner of the Beaver kits) and he said that "if Adrian [Swain] catalogued them, they exist".
However, if they really do exist, why is there a lack of other evidence?  Hoping in anticipation that a photo or other evidence will turn up.

Ian

P.S. N gauge history is fascinating.

[martyn]

Getting a bit off topic, Fleetline used to be separate from Gem-I think. I've probably got their adverts from the 70s and 80s in my Modellers somewhere in the loft... I know I bought some part kits from the then owner to kitbash otherwise non-avaliable coaching stock.

I can only echo what Roy LS said-I've never seen the L1 and L3 either in the metal or even advertised, and I've been looking for an L1 since about 1976.....but I do feel that the L1 was released, however maybe as only one or very limited issue?  Other ABS kits and bits I have seen advertised, and even bought.

Don't really know.

Best wishes on your further research

Martyn

[icairns]

Yes, Fleetline and GEM were definitely separate companies at one time.

Actually, a company called Skytrex Road 'N' Rail developed the following loco kits:

Beyer Garratt 2-6-0 + 0-6-2
LMS Stanier 2-6-4T
LMS Fairburn 2-6-4T
LMS Hughes Crab 2-6-0
BR Standard Class 4 2-6-4T

These kits were eventually incorporated into Fleetline.  In the N gauge Society's Handbook, a 2008 listing of kit manufacturers lists Fleetline as Fleetline Road 'N' Rail and there is no mention of Skytrex.

Sometime later, the Fleetline locos and the GEM locos came together under one umbrella and eventually as part of Lychett Manor Models.  I just referred to them as GEM/Fleetline for convenience.

Ian

[Alcazar]

A Skytrex Ltd, based in Loughborough, still exists today and produces military models, OO and O gauge. I think the original company might have gone into administration in the 1990s and this is the third reincarnation so to speak. https://www.therailwayhub.co.uk/278/coming-up-in-the-february-2019-issue-of-rmm-skytrex-the-next-generation/

As you say, the N gauge models were passed on to Fleetline Road 'N' Rail, also based in Loughborough: they are all in Fleetline's 1997 catalogue.

I also have an N Brass Locomotives catalogue of RTR/kits from 1998 which includes an "in production" K4 and J11. There is no mention of them in a 2007 leaflet I have, but there are fittings for the K3.

Peter

[icairns]

Then they passed to Lychett Manor Models when they acquired the GEM/Fleetline range. 

*Should be Lytchett (not Lychett).

Ian

[martyn]

I haven't checked with N Brass, but I think the K3 fittings are the ones used by Foxhunter in his kit. If not, they are very similar.

Getting off topic a bit again, Phil Kerr seems to have done a lot of mastering of models; as I've already said in this thread, he did the B12 and D15/D16 for BHE.

Martyn

[Platy767]

I have a B12 that I bought from a shop in Rickmansworth in 1992. I was on a very quick tour of preserved railways on the way back from a work assignment in Belgium and The Netherlands. I also visited some of the places and sites I had read about in the Metroland and Final Link books. (Aylesbury, Chesham, Great Missenden, the Misbourne Viaduct, (well, under the viaduct while driving on the M25.) I remember coming in to Rickmansworth and driving through a large roundabout and up a hill (Scot's Hill maybe. IIRC). I doubt the shop is still there, but I still have the (unmade) B12 kit.

Mark

[icairns]

I also have an N Brass Locomotives catalogue of RTR/kits from 1998 which includes an "in production" K4 and J11. There is no mention of them in a 2007 leaflet I have, but there are fittings for the K3.

Peter

I contacted Nick Tilston of N Brass Locos.  He confirmed that the K4 and J11 locos were to be limited edition RTR locos (like the N Brass Locos J50).  However, neither got past the planning stage.

Ian