Gunpowder vans

[Bealman]

While pottering around on the forum some time ago, I noticed a Dapol gunpowder van for sale. I thought that's an unusual wagon, wouldn't mind one on my layout!

The seller turned out to be ohlavache in France, who informed me that he had two - I said I'd take them both.

They turned up at Chez Bealman earlier this week, and I'm very pleased with them. However, I have a number of questions for which I seek counsel from the forum.

Firstly, the models are actually different - one is marked, Dapol, GWR, No W105736, GUNPOWDER.

The other: DAPOL FOR MODELBAHN UNION no 4, GUNPOWDER VAN GWR, MU3990010, LIMITED EDITION 084/100.

So, the first one is a Fair Diinkum Dapol wagon, but I don't understand the Modelbahn Union thing on the other. It also appears to be a limited edition - have I got a collector's item?

Interestingly, this van is marked "Improvised Gunpowder Van" I assume there was a prototype, and if so, what exactly does it mean?



Which brings me to more questions about the prototype.... the boxes tell me this was a GWR wagon. Did these vans see operation in BR days? My layout is transition era.

Next, what was the operational protocol? Obviously they would need barrier wagons -- how many?

Would this be a train to itself? I doubt it would turn up in a mixed goods!

Would these two wagons I've got run in tandem, or would there only be one per train?

Ok, lots of questions, but I like to run things prototypically if possible.

Anyway, they're lovely wagons - thanks again, @ohlavache

[crewearpley40]

George. Barrier wagons are a must either side of the two coupled together. Remember tyne yard ? A little hint here  https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/43516-movement-of-gun-powder-vans/   hope helps

[Bealman]

Thanks for that link, Chris. Some interesting stuff there!

[crewearpley40]

Looks like a genuine dapol. George the mystery of the modelbahn union is this is dapol' s european distributor  I believe the   salvage van.. I have found https://www.dapol.co.uk/special-commissions/n-gauge-specials/modelbahn-union/10513-gunpowder-van-salvage     - please don't open the link it's in German language

[exmouthcraig]

I only know a tiny little bit about GPVs George   

I dont know if British Railways used them as intended for the transportation of gunpowder.

We have a rake of Blue Circle cement versions, operating the end of steam in SR meant we had a few for their running to Exeter Central. Again lifespan knowledge is poor but @Bob G seems to think they ran with them until replacement with cemflos of which earliest photos seem to suggest 1964.

They believed a cast iron van, intending to be blast proof would be perfect for transporting paper bags of cement across the railway network. What they didnt consider was the condensation issue, which was presumably the biggest driving force behind development of a new wagon.

I think the gunpowder was travelled in wooden barrels and therefore moisture wasnt so much of an issue when on their original workings



Right is box fresh, left I've added a puckered felt roof and tried to replicate signs of their hard life. Decent little wagons even though their past is quite hard to find out about

[Bealman]

Thanks, Craig - very interesting! 

[crewearpley40]

I'm sure they ran in br days confirmed by looking at  https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brgunpowder         definitely great if thinking of quarry traffic / MOD traffic.

[Bealman]

Another good link. Thanks, Chris. 

[crewearpley40]

Your welcome George. Models look fab. I'm pretty sure if you run them with box vans and open wagons at the rear if the train with barrier wagons either side with brake van, don't forget please not next to the loco obvious reasons one should  be happy. 

[joe cassidy]

Presumably "improvised" means converted from a GWR iron mink, which is available as an NGS kit.

[Bealman]

Ah, thank you! 

Was that really on the prototype vans?

[joe cassidy]

Yes, there was an article about these vans by Stuart Brasier in the 04/96 issue of the NGS Journal with a photo.

[martyn]

BR built gunpowder vans to basically the GWR design, but the last forty had 10' wb chassis as opposed to the 9' of earlier wagons.

The BR livery was not as showy as your models, being in standard colours (bauxite) and the word 'gunpowder' above the wagon number.

Martyn

[Bealman]

Joe:

Unfortunately, I don't have that issue, but thanks for the heads-up!

I have a reference point now. 

[Bealman]

Martyn,

Thanks for that! I've got a lot of bauxite vans, but I'm reluctant to spoil these little critters!