Why is there a dearth of standard / second class coaches?

[Newportnobby]

Maybe I am the sucker as I having been trying to work out what I would do with 3 additional BG should I buy enough sets to give me the 4 TSO required to do so.

A short parcels train??

[crewearpley40]

There is certainly a gap and I for one would like to see mk2A / b coaches and are with Steven and Paul pinball and their comments. A pack of 3 or 4 would make a good deal and cheaper than buying individually.

[Chris Morris]

It is quite disappointing that it is so hard to build up a reasonable rake of mk1s or mk2s these days. I guess one problem might be that many of us, like me, have spent years building up a collection of coaching stock and so the law of diminishing sales of re-runs has set in. Still disappointing though. Maybe somebody else should put a foot in the mk1 market and see how it goes?

[exmouthcraig]

What I struggle to get my head round is that the "catalogue' will list 20 or 30 (whatever number) of coaches, I'm only ever after the green ones because other then BR (S) nothing else existed 

If you launch an annual catalogue it is expected by your buying customers that the catalogue items will be available. Now most of us accept that just because we have an "OO gauge model shown" means wecan probably wait 4 years to see it, I see no point in putting them in the catalogue.

BUT the BIGGEST problem is they only ever make one run of each item    is it wrong to think that while that item sits in your catalogue continual production of that item will take place??? This isnt a misunderstanding of how they have slots in a factory to allow this to happen it's why they dont have a continuous process of manufacturing of their products.

It is a strange concept (to me) that I can produce a catalogue of 500 items, list 60 items as new OO model shown and not actually put that onto shelves for 4 years, list 400 items that have already been released and subsequently sold out, so a stockist can put 40 items of my 500 items on the shelf 

(The numbers quoted in this post are pure fictional and no factual content is included other then my failure to understand what relevance catalogues have when it seems nothing we want is available)

[zwilnik]

One of the issues, as I've been told by various people, is that Bachmann have to 'book' a manufacturing slot for any given product effectively in competition with all the other brands under their parent company Kader. As the British outline brands are relatively minor sales compared to Kader's US lines, it doesn't get that many slots.

That led me to wondering though. If they started doing pre-orders or expressions of interest on models such as second class coaches where they could potentially sell the whole run before they were made (in the style of Revolution's business model) then they'd be able to take that to Kader and say "Look, free money, give us a slot"

[GlenEglise]

What I struggle to get my head round is that the "catalogue' will list 20 or 30 (whatever number) of coaches, I'm only ever after the green ones because other then BR (S) nothing else existed 

If you launch an annual catalogue it is expected by your buying customers that the catalogue items will be available. Now most of us accept that just because we have an "OO gauge model shown" means wecan probably wait 4 years to see it, I see no point in putting them in the catalogue.

BUT the BIGGEST problem is they only ever make one run of each item    is it wrong to think that while that item sits in your catalogue continual production of that item will take place??? This isnt a misunderstanding of how they have slots in a factory to allow this to happen it's why they dont have a continuous process of manufacturing of their products.

It is a strange concept (to me) that I can produce a catalogue of 500 items, list 60 items as new OO model shown and not actually put that onto shelves for 4 years, list 400 items that have already been released and subsequently sold out, so a stockist can put 40 items of my 500 items on the shelf 

(The numbers quoted in this post are pure fictional and no factual content is included other then my failure to understand what relevance catalogues have when it seems nothing we want is available)

I don't really understand why you are talking about annual catalogues with a large number of models in "N Gauge".

Manufacturers stopped this years ago because they could not guarantee when models would actually be physically available to purchase. Mainly due to the current methods of development and production.

GE

[exmouthcraig]

@GlenEglise so if I trot off today and buy

BACHMANN COMBINED CATALOGUE 2021

EVERY SINGLE ITEM in the Graham Farish range featured in this catalogue branded 2021 is available to buy right now???

If the catalogue wasnt issued in 2021 then according to you theres absolutely no relevance of that date being on there, let alone

Graham Farish 2014 / 2015 / 2016 / 2017 / 2018 / 2019 or even the Bachmann combined 2020?

I didnt produce those catalogues the manufacturer did so cant really understand what part of "annual catalogue " you dont agree with.

[Bealman]

I grew up with Triang catalogues, and ok, the world is a different place now, and models are manufactured to a different game plan, but as far as I'm concerned, if a catalogue is out, all models in it should be available in that time period.

[railsquid]

Tomix renamed its annual publication of drool pictures from "Catalogue" to "Guide" a few years ago, apparently because people were complaining about items not being available.

[njee20]

Given Bachmann have moved to the three monthly release lists I wonder if the catalogue will wither and die once they've released all of the 'legacy' items in it. It doesn't really serve a purpose at that point, to Craig's point. This isn't just the case in N either. The nature of batch production means that few of the OO gauge models are actually available to buy in the shops.

That led me to wondering though. If they started doing pre-orders or expressions of interest on models such as second class coaches where they could potentially sell the whole run before they were made (in the style of Revolution's business model) then they'd be able to take that to Kader and say "Look, free money, give us a slot"

Yes, but one assumes that Bachmann US could just do the same with boxcars or whatever and say "look, 10 times as much free money". Your theory would hold if Kader were underestimating the relative demand for UK N, but I'm not sure they are.

It certainly rankles that so little stuff is available regularly though, particularly with reruns. Dapol do it well, Farish really don't. And then there are ludicrous decisions like discounting the NSE mk2s when the Dapol 50 was released. I picked up 10 for £23 each (as was the discounted price at all retailers), unsurprisingly with the 50 out the demand was high, now resale prices are double that, and no sign of a re-run. That's giving away free money!

I wonder if Dapol will rerun TPE 68s to coincide with the Revolution mk5s. It would seem sensible...

The flip side is that we have myriad variants of models now; and that means a batch run. 25 years ago you could always get a mk2 coach, but there were fewer variants, more generic parts shared between models and the quality was lower.

[zwilnik]

That led me to wondering though. If they started doing pre-orders or expressions of interest on models such as second class coaches where they could potentially sell the whole run before they were made (in the style of Revolution's business model) then they'd be able to take that to Kader and say "Look, free money, give us a slot"

Yes, but one assumes that Bachmann US could just do the same with boxcars or whatever and say "look, 10 times as much free money". Your theory would hold if Kader were underestimating the relative demand for UK N, but I'm not sure they are.

This is very true. There's also the argument that while the UK market is a small percentage of Kader's overall sales, it's still a percentage that would look bad on the balance books if they lost part or all of it. They seem to be walking a fine line between keeping UK modellers on side and annoying them to the point where the big money spenders feel they can't risk investing in Bachmann rolling stock as there's a chance they'll only end up with part of the train they wanted and no chance to ever finish it.

It's bit of an oversimplification but it's similar to the concept in advertising that one reason for advertising is purely to keep the market share you already have.

[joe cassidy]

Sorry to go a bit off topic but the situation is even worse for the 16 ton BR mineral wagon, of which there were over 300 000 on the rails during the 50s/60s.

I challenge anyone to find a shop capable of supplying 20 Farish wagons in BR livery (or 20 Peco KNR 207 kits).

Best regards,


Joe

[Newportnobby]

Probably unlikely for a shop to stock 20 of a particular item unless it's a consumable (no- you're not meant to eat them) so tough on anyone looking to buy a rake of them. If Peco have stock then an order from your chosen retailer shouldn't take too long.

[crewearpley40]

If its 20 https://www.petersspares.com/graham-farish-graham-farish-n-wagons.irc   havec17 in. Knr207 try anticsonline.co.uk, ttcdiecast.com and hamodels.net    and John dutfield

[joe cassidy]

Thanks to you I just bagged 10 Peco KNR 207 kits at a price of £7.17 each (RRP for next production run £8.60), cleaning out TTC Diecast and H&A Models in the process.

Yours truly gratefully,


Joe