a dilemma ... i cannot be the 1st

paulbeckwith · November 21, 2021, 01:26:11 PM

hi all

my dilemma is that my layout CANNOT stay horizontal after playing ( still in building stage ) it has to be stowed up vertically
question is my layout will have 40 plus points .... i have ordered a piece of perspex to affix switches to (40 off)

im building a box and with perspex ... problem is going to be ... it will have to be plug and sockets ... im looking at 4 x db25
setup

has anyone done / tried this ... ok not the best and will take 10 mins or so to connect said plugs

paul ....... thankyou in advance

chrism · November 21, 2021, 01:43:44 PM

I use D-sub plugs/sockets without any problems - although, in my case, it's a mixture of 9w, 15w, 25w and 37w. The mixture is partly to provide the number of connections I require and partly to ensure that the various cables can't be put into the wrong sockets.

paulbeckwith · November 21, 2021, 02:34:28 PM

thanks for the info ... a blo**y good idea to mix sizes ..... didnt really think about that happening

paul

chrism · November 21, 2021, 02:54:19 PM

Quote from: paulbeckwith on November 21, 2021, 02:34:28 PM

thanks for the info ... a blo**y good idea to mix sizes ..... didnt really think about that happening

You're welcome. Another thing I do is to swap the plug/socket genders to further avoid misconnections.

For example, should I absolutely need to use two 25-way cables between the control panel and a baseboard (my layouts are several baseboards joined together) then for the first I'll put plugs on the baseboard and control panel with sockets on the cable ends, whilst the second will have sockets on the baseboard and control panel with plugs on the cable.
Thus, it's impossible to connect the cable 1 output from the control panel to the cable 2 input to the baseboard.

paulbeckwith · November 21, 2021, 03:19:46 PM

thanks again

foolproof

paul

ntpntpntp · November 21, 2021, 05:19:59 PM

I've used D37 plugs and sockets (with 36 core cabling) for decades as my standard between control panels and baseboards. I standardise on the "live" end of the cable being the female socket just as you would with mains power. I build my layouts for DC with electrified points and isolating sections as required, so I expect quite a few connections to be needed on a typical baseboard. If it needs more then I add another D37, maybe an occasional D25 if that's definitely all I need. D15 for power from transformer box to control panel (3x controller, accessory AC, CDU power etc.)

Not sure about the "take 10 mins to connect up" - it should take you just a few seconds per cable. You don't have to worry about the securing screws

3x D37 to one board and 2x D37 to the other for this loco depot currently in progress. As you can see, loads of section switches on the panel plus controls for a traverser and a turntable

paulbeckwith · November 21, 2021, 06:31:09 PM

now that is impressive ... thanks for sharing .....

thought about db37 s plenty on e**y ... but all i could find ( and purchased ) was 25 core cable ... could not find anything with more cores ... im going to try ... 1 live feed to at least 20 switches x2 (40 points ) then 2 cables out from switch to each point
not sure where i can introduce the cdu .... i see you have 1 per point
maybe cdu before it enters control box ... going to be using 4700uf cdu .... should only need to fire 2 points at any one time

40 peco points plus i have 3 kato scissor crossings ... they fire all 4 motors at once

paul

ntpntpntp · November 21, 2021, 06:58:30 PM

36 core cable is out there if you look at electronic component suppliers such as RS, Farnell. You need to be sure you look for something with decent current carrying capacity per core, as some of the stuff out there is "data" cable rated at something small like 0.25A per core. I made the mistake of using some of that for my cabling back in the late 80s. It works but on longer runs you get a lot of voltage drop. The better stuff is more expensive and thicker overall diameter of course. The last lot I bought for a good price was actually a part-reel from a guy on ebay who was doing professional lighting displays for exhibitions etc.

Here's the ref number on my 25m reel

.. and comparing the core size with the original thin cored data cable I used back in 1986

Yes I have individual CDUs. Another design feature from when I started my layout back in the mid 90s. I had grand plans of maybe adding computer control etc. and wanted to be sure the points could be fired by a low power control system. The automation never came to pass, but having individual CDUs has been great for an exhibition layout where you have two or three operators each doing their own thing. We can fire as many points as we like without hindering each other. Some of the fiddleyard routing buttons use diode matrices and fire up to 10 points.

My main "power box" on the floor containing the transformers etc. still has the original single CDU from my previous 1980s layout, should I ever want to power a layout which doesn't have multiple CDUs.

At least your Kato point motors don't really need a CDU like the Peco motors etc. do. I must admit I recently modified the design of my little CDUs so that if necessary I can hook in a two-wire point motor such as Kato or LGB, by adding one of DCC Concepts' little adapter units they offer for converting 3-wire DCC accessory decoder outputs to 2-wire.

Bonnyman750 · November 21, 2021, 09:56:47 PM

My layout is DC and I used 4 x 37 way SubD connections (power, points, signal/isolator rails and point direction LED power) to connect the control panel to the layout baseboard. The layout is mainly located on a large table and I wanted the control box to be both an easy push fit into the baseboard side and to sit on the table level with the baseboard.
Although doing it this way meant that they didn't have to be poke yoke (foolproof) I also created a 4 way umbilical to connect remotely (just in case I go down the exhibition route and a large table is not available) so soldered the SubDs in opposite positions on 2 of the leads. All connections are labelled anyway but I felt that this was more 'belt and braces'...

Hope this helps...

Glyn

paulbeckwith · November 22, 2021, 05:42:50 PM

thanks for that input ..... given me ideas

paul

Firstone18 · November 22, 2021, 06:33:50 PM

Paul, I was faced with a similar dilemma, but not on the scale of yours! I looked at various solutions and finally decided on a bus/network system. I was initially going to use the MERG CBUS, but it seemed overkill for my requirements. I then looked into other bus systems by MERG, and other providers; I decided on the MERG Ezybus system based on Arduino microcontrollers. This is now available from the MERG Kitlocker and has proved ideal for my requirements. I realize it is probably too late for you to consider this method, but maybe of interest to others on the NGF.
Cheers
Keith
NGS 21472

paulbeckwith · November 22, 2021, 07:02:11 PM

thanks for the imput

still not sure about the cdu ...... it will have to go before the point switches .... all 40 of them

ntpntpntp · November 22, 2021, 07:45:18 PM

Yes the CDU (if you have just the one) goes between your power supply and common input to the control panel switches.

Nice and easy, just keep in mind that with this approach whenever you press a button or throw a toggle switch you're putting that full burst of power through the switch contacts and all the wiring. Some of the sub-miniature push buttons and toggles may well burn out over time. Your wiring needs to be substantial enough to carry the current without voltage drop over longer wiring runs.

(As an aside, my use of individual CDUs with low power control signals has let me use lower rated buttons, smaller diodes in route matrices, and lower rated wiring, but of course it's an approach the vast majority of people are unlikely to want to follow. It is more expensive, probably added £4-£5 to the cost of motorising each of my many dozens of points

).

paulbeckwith · November 23, 2021, 04:40:42 PM

thanks for the advice

paul

paulbeckwith · November 25, 2021, 07:00:51 AM

hi all again .... purchased off e**y 36 core multicore cable .... awg is 26 looks a bit thin for 3 to 4 metre runs between points

and switches on mimic / control panel ... i suppose i got what i paid for ... and will go in the bin

cef ( www.cef.co.uk ) do a multicore 25 strands stock item number 0024-7021 looks abit better ... rated for 300 volts

any advice as always grateful paul