Barrier Wagons

[mojo]

How many barrier wagons were required for a train of petrol tankers ( class A?) in steam days circa 1939?
Between engine and tanker and guards van and tanker.
Maurice C.

[Bealman]

I always just saw one, but that might be incorrect.

[crewearpley40]

A couple of discussions here https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/112658-br-oil-trains/  and here  https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/44646-barrier-wagons-on-oil-trains/

[martyn]

I'd always thought two barrier wagons for class A between loco and first tank, but I haven't actually seen or got the BR traffic rules for this. Photos show that this rule was also in place for diesel hauled trains, at least initially.

Note also that the compulsory livery changed from light stone to aluminium from 1939, with red bands on the cross-heads, and 18" along the sides. World War 2 soon caused changed the livery to leaden grey.

A photo in 'Oil on the rails' by Alan Coppin has a photo of an 'Austerity' with two barrier wagons in 1966, labelled as 'not changed much from WW2'.

The links given by crewearpley40 have some good guidance, including when a class A tank didn't need barriers (eg conveying class B 'clean' fuel).

Martyn

[crewearpley40]

Martyn. Thanks the rules are here in the br pink pages but have a look at https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/118992-barrier-wagons/   the issues are flashpoint materials, highly flammable and volatile loads. For steam era  https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/8422-steam-era-barrier-wagons/   this is ****** useful

[martyn]

Thanks, Chris.

Your links have other interesting links; it's a pity that these 'pink pages' are not yet available on sites like the BR information on Barrowmore group.

As an aside, if hazardous traffic, usually Octel in tanks or chlorine, was carried on the Harwich-Zeebrugge train ferry, they had to be carried right at the stern so that in an emergency, theoretically, they could be dumped overboard-or so I was told. Photos and my own observations confirm they were stowed aft.

Martyn

[crewearpley40]

Martyn. Links at https://www.rssb.co.uk/en/standards-catalogue/CatalogueItem/GORT3053-D-Iss-1  and for the info please google british rail pink pages working manual,  look for BR30054 /6 it's in pdf @martyn , difficult to copy. Chris

[Steven B]

The rules about separating dangerous goods from the train crew (and other dangerous goods on the train) was based on distance, not number of wagons.

For example, a long bogie bolster could be used instead of two four-wheel wagons. The later were more commonly seen as barriers as there were more common.

The barrier needn't be empty. A Class B tank could be used as a barrier for a class A tank for example. Similarly a van or open carrying other non-hazardous goods could also be used.

Steven B.

[martyn]

Chris, @crewearpley40 ;

Thanks for the links, I've never been able to find these references before. I try and be correct with train formations, but sometimes it's guesswork or second hand info.

@Steven B

I think at least some of your points come out in the RM Web link that Crewearpley40 sent. Thanks for the further info, though, especially one long wagon equals two short ones.

martyn

[crewearpley40]

Sorry could not copy the link I suggested google .

[mojo]

Many thanks for all the replies and the information I requested.

Maurice C.