Monaco GP Reminder!

Mr Sprue · May 15, 2021, 08:45:36 AM

Of how drivers used to drive round the circuit.......

Imagine that.... No Launch control. No Paddles just a manual gear change lever. No on board computer or two way radio. NO HALO!!

Drivers back then definitely had a much larger pair than the ones today!

Bealman · May 15, 2021, 08:50:49 AM

A petrol head I ain't, but that is pretty cool.

Mr Sprue · May 15, 2021, 09:10:51 AM

Quote from: Bealman on May 15, 2021, 08:50:49 AM
A petrol head I ain't, but that is pretty cool.

If you liked that vid you may appreciate this one also. This might remind you how proper engines used to sound like George. Not quite the high pitch sound of a Ferrari V12 being driven in anger, but the Cosworth DFY V8 also sounded pretty amazing too.

Much more better than the subsonic type Prius's we have screaming round the track today!

Bealman · May 15, 2021, 09:15:33 AM

Definitely got me in! Brm Brm!

bridgiesimon · May 15, 2021, 10:39:09 AM

I totally get what you are saying about lack of driver aids, get rid of them all. As for the halo? that is a life saver. Justin Wilson would likely have survived his crash had his car been fitted with one, Ayrton Senna would have and Romain Grojean would have most certainly died in his recent crash is it wasn't for the halo!!

I was horrified when I saw them at first, but very quickly realised how important for driver safety they are.

Awesome footage though!

best wishes
Simon

zwilnik · May 15, 2021, 12:05:08 PM

If you want to go and see them live, the Masters Historic Festival at Brands Hatch is on the 29th and 30th of May this year

https://brandshatch.msv.com/BH-21-Masters

I'm hoping to catch them at Jerez later in the year, but I've seen them twice at Brands Hatch now and it's really good racing (sometimes a bit too full on

)

All drivers escaped unscathed (and the cars were repaired of course).

njee20 · May 15, 2021, 08:24:56 PM

I'm not sure the modern cars are actually any easier to drive though. Waaaaay more power, more downforce, far more 'managing' of the car to be done, with settings, balances, DRS all being adjusted on the fly. They're subjected to higher g-forces, and physically travel faster. Yes ok they don't die as often, and therefore I guess you can argue the 'old guard' were braver, but I'm not sure it's a good thing.

zwilnik · May 15, 2021, 08:55:55 PM

Quote from: njee20 on May 15, 2021, 08:24:56 PM
Yes ok they don't die as often, and therefore I guess you can argue the 'old guard' were braver, but I'm not sure it's a good thing.

Agreed. I'm watching Romain Grosjean compete (from pole!) in the Indy Grand Prix at the moment. In any of the older cars he definitely wouldn't be doing that today after that accident.

Mr Sprue · May 16, 2021, 09:25:24 AM

Quote from: zwilnik on May 15, 2021, 08:55:55 PM
Quote from: njee20 on May 15, 2021, 08:24:56 PM
Yes ok they don't die as often, and therefore I guess you can argue the 'old guard' were braver, but I'm not sure it's a good thing.

Agreed. I'm watching Romain Grosjean compete (from pole!) in the Indy Grand Prix at the moment. In any of the older cars he definitely wouldn't be doing that today after that accident.

The point I was making being a racing driver back then took much more nerve and skill than it does today. It could also be argued that those drivers were pioneers and paved the way to provide the safety that drivers enjoy today.

Motorcycle racing on the other hand is the opposite it's just got faster and more dangerous!

njee20 · May 16, 2021, 09:38:50 AM

But that's what I'm saying, I'm not sure it was more skilled, just different skills. Possibly on the bravery bit. I dunno, if you said to the current driver lineup "we're going to execute one of randomly at some point" I've no idea how many would carry on. But who's driving that classic car? Why's he not a current F1 driver, if he's so clearly more skilled? All he has to focus on is driving the car. It's more raw, yes. But the fitness requirements were much less, and the other demands much less taxing. Are you suggesting F1 cars have got slower...?

Bealman · May 16, 2021, 09:52:47 AM

I think that nostalgia plays a big part here.

Present day motor racing is light years away from back then.

Different vehicles, certainly different technology, and therefore a different skill set.

But it's good to look at old footage with a nostalgic eye.

Except for some of the horrendous accidents, of course.

Mr Sprue · May 16, 2021, 10:03:46 AM

@njee20

Again the point was directed at the cars of that era and the drivers that drove them, not the guy who's driving the car today in a classic event! Drivers like Hunt, Lauda, Mansell, Prost, Senna etc would be driving around a lot quicker than those guys are. I would also suspect historic value attached to the car prevents it from being driven to its maximum potential too!

No way have F1 cars got slower in straight line speeds in fact I would go to say speeds are similar, although corner speeds would have increased with the advancement of technology.

njee20 · May 16, 2021, 10:16:55 AM

Of course they would, but are they more skilled than today's drivers then? Mansell? He romped away in a car with far more driver aids than anything today. I dunno, I think it's the implication that drivers were 'better' then, when in reality it's just different. I don't think Hamilton would win in a 1980 car any more than Hunt would today.

I agree with Bealman that there's a huge amount of nostalgia in motorsport particularly.

Bealman · May 16, 2021, 10:24:45 AM

Thank you.

That was then and this is now.

zwilnik · May 16, 2021, 10:38:32 AM

Current F1 cars don't have traction control, launch control or any other driver aids other than power steering (which is necessary as they're a lot heavier than the older cars and the amount of grip on the front tyres would make them near impossible to steer otherwise). The flappy paddle semi-automatic gearbox makes gear changing a little less physical, but with the gearboxes needing to last 6 races, the odd duff gear change that the old drivers could easily get away with is likely to damage one of the 3 gearboxes you get for the year and dump you down the grid at a future race or end the current one.

The G forces are definitely higher and the mental load on the drivers is extreme. Not only do they have to physically drive the car with absolute precision, they also have to manage tyre wear, tyre temperature, brake temperature, engine temperature, fuel rate, battery charge rate and use as well as fault management. All of that through a tiny LCD screen on the steering wheel while going at up to 200mph with a button layout that would make any ergonomist have nightmares

That's not to disparage the old F1 drivers though. The best of them were top athletes like the current drivers and no doubt at least some of them would have been able to learn to drive a modern F1 car competitively. Most of them weren't as physically fit though (or mentally fit) as any of the modern drivers and would struggle to survive 23 races I suspect.

As @njee20 said though, the cars and the sport were just different then. Today's drivers have trained and adapted to the cars they drive, just as the older drivers did.