Poole Farish coaches

[Papyrus]

I'm sure there must have been discussion on the Forum about this before but I can't find any references, so apologies if this is a tired old question. Were the Poole Farish 'main line' coaches based on any particular prototype? For the avoidance of doubt, these are the ones I mean:



I'm trying to justify their use on an Eastern region branch line. They don't remotely resemble any LNER type, but I'm prepared to accept interlopers from other regions.

Thanks in advance,

Chris

[crewearpley40]

Chris. I'm pretty uncertain
They dont look like suburban stock and wondering whether farish used the term 'mainline ' to help sell those models. They look ex lms, sr and gwr to my eye. Chris

[martyn]

By adding microstrip 'beading' and changing the roof with an Ultima one, I made one to be VERY vaguely resembling a GER corridor of about WW1 period.

I also painted it in brownish teak, as Stratford did so with much secondary use pre grouping stock after Nationalisation.

But I don't recall ever seeing evidence that they were based on anything, though I may be mistaken in this.

Ultima also did a conversion to make these vaguely Southern, IIRC.

Martyn

[Papyrus]

I suspect they used the term 'main line' to distinguish these that had corridor connections from the 'suburban' ones with a similar body that didn't!

Cheers,

Chris

[martyn]

Chris;

My conversion was very loosely based on the 3rd in the bottom photo;

https://www.hornby.com/us-en/forum/ger-coaches/?p=1/

Other photos available through Google search.

I think there is a 3rd preserved at Chappel, at the East Anglian steam museum.

They lasted until circa 1960.

Martyn

[martyn]

You might find inspiration based on pre-Grouping LNER coaches here;

https://rcts.org.uk/features/archive/search.htm?subtype=3&company=LNER

GER coaches on Thaxted Light Railway;

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/131871095322260488/

Link to Ultima conversions, but no photos;

https://www.ultima-models.co.uk/catalogue/old-conversion.html


Martyn

[PLD]

Farish made gangwayed/corridor coaches which they branded "Mainline" and non-corridor coaches which they branded as "Suburban" Both were available as a Brake Third and a Composite.

All four variants were produced in the liveries of all of the 'big 4' companies and BR maroon, plus BR Crimson & cream appeared on the "Mainline", BR crimson (actually an odd dark pinky shade) on the "suburbans" and allegedly some "Suburbans" were produced in BR Blue but I don't recall ever seeing in the flesh...

They weren't an accurate representation of any single prototype. The body profile was probably closest to a Southern Maunsel as was the layout of the corridor side of the "Mainline" coaches but the roof profile was too flat.
The Non-Corridor coaches were closest to LMS Period 2 designs, but again the roof profile was wrong - more like ex Midland / LMS period 1 stock...

As Martyn said above Ultima did indeed do replacement roofs for both SR and LMS P2 profiles. IIRC the Ultima conversion packs also included details parts to rework the underframes to something more like.

[Dorsetmike]

I'd agree the corridor coaches were probably closest to Maunsell, except for the Maunsell narrow brake ends, the Ultima roofs also helped. The "suburbans" could almost pass as ex LSWR non corridors although roof profile was again wrong, but chop off one compartment for a 50 footer and hack the brake end to make a driving brake third for a push pull set.

[PGN]

They are all generic coach types ... not based on any specific prototype.

When the 4-wheel coaches were first produced in the early 1970s, they were moulded in single colour plastic (you could have "teak", dark brown dark green or maroon) with class number transfers on the compartment doors (1st brake; 2nd or 3rd class for the 5-compartment coaches).

For a very short period, the bogie "suburban" (but not corridor) coaches were similarly produced in single-colour plastic ... but only dark brown, dark green and maroon. There were no "teak" corridor coaches (a pity, really ... ). These coaches came with a methfix transfer sheet of class numbers for the doors which were seldom applied ... and if you can buy one in its box, lifting the velour inner will often reveal the transfer sheet, still in place, and (being methfix) still usable nearly 50 years later!

Etched Pixels produce replacement rooves to give these coaches a more LSWR appearance ...

[Paddy]

Personally, I rather like these coaches and if you get a good one where the livery is applied well they are nice.  The teak ones are particularly effective.  One thing I a have noticed is that they are a wee bit large (over scale?).

I suspect Farish probably copied Hornby's approach with generic coaches.  At the time this maximised reuse of parts and kept costs down.

Kind regards

Paddy

[Papyrus]

Thanks for all the replies and interesting information.

I did wonder whether they had anything to do with Maunsell designs, but it is obviously little more than coincidence. When you think about it, it seems odd that Farish chose to market a fictitious coach. Surely it would have required no more work to produce a reasonable facsimile of a Mk 1 which appeared in a variety of liveries and was to be found all over the system. Must have seemed like a good idea at the time...

I'm not sure I can be bothered to do the work required to improve them if they are unsuitable for Eastern Region, although @martyn 's idea for a GER coach is intriguing! I ill investigate further. Thanks for the links, Martyn.

Cheers,

Chris

[PGN]

You have to remember, Papyrus, that when Farish first started making RTR in N, nobody really knew what the RTR market was going to be or what it would want.

Before them, Highfield had produced a small number of freelance tank locomotives in various Big 4 and pre-grouping liveries (CR, GER, LNER and NER are all confirmed ... I don't know what else they'd done), plus the H4 "Ragrimer" 2-6-0 in GNR and LNER liveries, and a kit for the NER 1001 class "Hippopotamus" 0-6-0 to fit the Arnold chassis. Peco were producing white metal kits for an LMS dock tank to fit the Arnold 0-6-0 chassis and the Fairburn tank to fit the Arnold 2-6-4 chassis, and Minitrix were producing a J63 kit to fit their T3 chassis.

That was all there was in 1971, when Graham Farish produced their first two RTR locomotives ... the 94xx and the J69. Both were chosen, no doubt, because of their "boxy" superstructure which could easily accommodate the can motors they were using. The idea was evidently to produce a "passenger trainset" using the GER-livery J69, with the "teak" 4-wheelers, and a "goods train set" using the 94xx, and the "toad" brake van. They commissioned a painting of an Edwardian station scene with a J69 in GER livery at the head of a rake of teak 4-wheelers speeding past a station, and this was used on the box lids for their early train sets and their catalogue cover.

I think the designs were chosen because they could easily be turned out in any livery without looking out of place ... and bear in mind that the early magazine reviews actually APPLAUDED the use of generic models, saying that they showed that in this small scale it's the LIVERY you notice more than the actual model that is wearing it ...

[Dancess]

N Gauge Journal 05/90 has interesting article by Bernard Taylor about these coaches.

[Papyrus]

@martyn , I think you're on to something!

I had a look at the GER Society website and found this:



which looks very similar to this:




The Farish coach is about 4 feet too long, but who's counting? The diagram is sufficiently sketchy that I don't know what the roof should look like, but I'll see if I can find some photos. Then there's this:



which is about 9 feet shorter than the Farish composite, but cut off one compartment and I reckon it could pass muster.

And then there's this:



Remind you of anything?



Cut off the full-length step, paint it teak, job done  .

I now need to find out when these coaches were in service and how they were numbered, which may be a bit more of a challenge.

Incidentally, I hadn't really studied the Farish teak paintwork closely before, but it is really rather good. My repaints will probably look pretty rubbish in comparison.

Cheers,

Chris

[martyn]

@Papyrus

Chris, I remember the Farish 4 wheelers when they were newly released. I don't know where, it's far too long ago, but somewhere the printed review was that they closely resembled the ex GER suburban coaches, even to the extent of minimal underframe detail. IIRC, the GER coaches had little under the floor, and being Westinghouse braked, had no vacuum brake gear hanging down.

Glad to have pointed you in the direction of the bogie main line stock. There was also similar clerestory roofed stock, from just before 1900, if IIRC. That could also be a potential conversion: such stock lasted until the mid 50s, I think, though some in East Anglia was ex NER, I think.

I have a colour photo of an ex GER restaurant car being used in a Newmarket race train in 1959. Note that as I said previously, Stratford painted pre grouping coaches in a dark brown/teak colour after Nationalisation, and not crimson or c+c.

It is also true what PLD said: the non corridor bogie coaches issued looked very similar to LMS  period 2s.

I googled 'GER coaches' for some images, and also Elsenham and Thaxted railway for others. I also have photos in some of my albums.

I used to go to Chapell and Wakes Colne Station for what was then the Stour Valley RPS. A group of modellers there was making a model of the station, and the viaduct. For stock, they were using the Farish J67/J69, and the four wheelers:they were giving at least some four wheelers clerestory roofs as well, though I'm not sure if that was correct. I don't know if the model was ever finished or where it went later.

Martyn