tier ????

[stevewalker]

isn't that a bit like saying that although there are speed limits, and you are not allowed to use your phone when driving, they know that people do, so they'll relax the laws for a couple of days 

ie we know people won't obey, so why bother with the rules in the first place.

Not quite. I think that they recognise that for the sake of people's mental health, they need to allow families that have not seen each other for many months, meet up and Christmas is simply the time that most people will really want to. It has long been recognised that, in normal years, for those that are isolated from their family, Christmas is an awful time, with high levels of depression and suicide.

[Skyline2uk]

5 days of calculated risk (scientists and doctors increasingly warning it will cost a lot).

To cancel this would be inhuman.

72 hours later, after the same scientists and doctors presumably made some really BIG and really COLOURFUL charts.....U turn so screeching Ken Block would be proud.

Skyline2uk

[daffy]

It's the politicians who made the u-turn, based on the evidence the doctors and scientists had been shouting in their ears for a long time.

The whole 5-day Christmas 'break' from the ravages that Covid19 inflicts daily was a joke from the outset, and one only the virus would find funny as it didn't agree to ANY cessation of its activities. In fact, it welcomed the chance to spread its message of illness and death, cos that's what a virus likes best.

The single day freedom that is now allowed (but advised against) is still a mistake.

I have not seen my step-daughter or her children for about a year now, and my step+son and his three youngsters have only been seen twice since March (other than via the magic of the internet etc). I have also only had electronic contact with my three siblings and their families since March.

So I and my wife miss them all deeply and long to be with them once more, but we will wait, for however long it's takes, as we have no desire to be ill or die, not do we wish to inadvertently carry this insidious virus to them or to others.

Christmas and the days that follow will be very different, but that is how it must be if we are to survive.

[Bealman]

Got the news that my daughter from Adelaide will not be joining us on Christmas Day because the new outbreak in Sydney has imposed travel restrictions. Wollongong (my home town) has been grouped in with greater Sydney.

That's just the way it is.

[weave]

Hi all,

Haven't really read all the answers on this thread properly but just to say with regard to the OP about Christmas Day, my sister, who lives in North London wanted to come down on the 27th to meet for a lunch in a restaurant as they were tier 3 and we, living in Hampshire were tier 2 so in the 5 day thing of last week that was fine. It would be their only escape for Christmas. There are four of them and only two of us.

I then spent all week thinking whether it was a good idea or not, mainly siding on not, but didn't want to disappoint her. Had just texted her yesterday saying that I didn't think it was a good idea when Boris announced his tier 4 for them. She wasn't happy with him or me but today texted me back saying that my 16 year old nephew had tested positive for Covid. He had been sent home from school 4 times recently during his mock exams because of other pupils testing positive and now he's got it.

I don't know what's going to happen with them or what to say really except why risk one day. It could of have happened to me and my wife next Sunday so everyone, just think, be careful and stay safe.

Cheers, weave.

[N_GaugeModeller]

Were I live we have the highest levels of Covid in the county and our negligent council allowed a stupid Christmas market to take place last weekend, our high street was packed as a result, and hardly a mask was seen

It no wonder we are so high with our local hospital 100% occupied is it with those sort of idiots in charge locally.

NGM

[Paul J]

I canned my Christmas trip from London back to Yorkshire at the start of December. It was just not worth the risk, and these restrictions always seemed a strong possibility. Once my parents have the jab I will be up there for a while to make up.

[ColinH]

Were I live we have the highest levels of Covid in the county and our negligent council allowed a stupid Christmas market to take place last weekend, our high street was packed as a result, and hardly a mask was seen

It no wonder we are so high with our local hospital 100% occupied is it with those sort of idiots in charge locally.

NGM

It is not just the idiots in charge. No one made the fools attend the Christmas market without masks. The only way we will beat this thing is for everyone to take personal responsibility for their actions and keep social mixing to the absolute minimum. The idea is surely not to think 'Oh the govt. has announced new restrictions - how can we get round them and enjoy ourselves as if nothing has happened' just look at all the fools that left London as soon as a travel ban was announced serve them right if all travel was stopped and they could not get back.

[Paul J]

You can't rely on personal responsibility. If you could, you would not need laws against drink driving or burglary.

There has to be a lead taken, including in setting an example. It is difficult for the government to argue that Londoners shouldn't be escaping to places such as County Durham.

The way to stop fools from not wearing masks at Christmas markets is to not have Christmas markets. And compensate the businesses involved.

[ColinH]

There is no simple answer to this problem. The govt is damned if they do and damned if they don't. We are not yet in a totallitarian state like China where they have allegedly brought the virus under control. Perhaps the answer is martial law and a total ban on all travel and a curfew. The fact that any action taken now takes two or three weeks to show evidence of effect is also a hindrance.

The sheer stupidity and selfishness of the general population makes me so angry as does the clamour for 'compensation from the government' who don't have any money anyway but will lots more of ours for years to come.

[Paul J]

The government has an extremely high capacity to borrow. Our national debt is still lower than it was during the Victorian "golden age". It is less than half of what it was after WW2.

Government debt is like a mortgage, except the interest is lower (much lower than inflation) and you have infinity years to pay it off. The mortgage is currently equivalent to one year's salary. In an emergency, you can decide to earn more money at will. Better still, the interest you pay out ends up in the pension funds of the people who live here.

Government borrowing is cheaper than the alternative. For example, I quite like having a main line railway network, a Health Service and a basic rate of income tax below 40%. So borrowing it is please!

The last government to pay off its national debt was Romania under Ceaușescu. In June 1989. The population gave him a nice Christmas present in gratitude...

[daffy]

I've just been to my local Marks & Spencer Food shop for what will be the last of our Christmas shopping, picking up some odds and ends and a turkey crown joint for my 81 year old neighbour who has COPD.

What a load of idiots I came across there, even with a booked buying slot and restricted numbers allowed in. Nobody, but nobody was making ANY attempt at social distancing. Quite the opposite!

All I can say is I'm glad I don't have to go out again between now and New Year as we can exist on what supplies we have.

As for the future?

Hospitals overloaded, crematorium staff on overtime, and great numbers of people wondering where it all went so horribly wrong.

And very few of them looking in a mirror for the answer.

But, ''tis the season of goodwill to all, so Merry Christmas everyone, and may you find happiness without spreading something other than joy and love.

[texhorse]

Daffy, I assure you that social distancing is not relevant in supermarkets.  After all you can't catch the virus there, can you?  You are immune aren't you?  Aren't you?

I work for one of the big four supermarkets and trust me when I say this.  Unless people are queuing up at check outs, there is little or no social distancing in the aisles.  People barging past each other, barely leaving a hair's breadth between each other as they struggle to get round.  There are people there who wear their mask to get past the security man on the door and then take them off when they are in the store.  Say anything to them and they glare at you and snarl "medical reasons" at you.

However, the good news is that you'll also come across people who do want to play by the rules.

It's just those who don't who have brought the south east into Tier 4.  Expect everyone else to follow shortly.

And if you do see me shopping for people who are vulnerable, don't swear at me and give me a hard time because my trolley is adding three seconds to your shopping trip.  Remember that my trolley represents eight households.  If I wasn't there with my trolley, there'd be at least eight more people in the store, blocking your way!

Andy
UK
Stay Safe My Friends

[honestjudge]

Ahh....Personal responsibility.....I remember that 

[Bob Tidbury]

We are in tier 4 but we will have to travel down to Chertsey Hospital today with my brother in law as he had a hip,replacement and needs to have the staples removed otherwise they will cause an infection , on the downside of tier 4 we wont be able to have our grandchildren over to unwrap their presents which wont be very nice as that's what we enjoy most ,the upside is we wont be having Mother in law with us this time so it should be good as she allways manages to start a row about something .
So now I WISH YOU ALL a MERRY CHRISTMAS and a HAPPIER NEW YEAR .
Lets hope that  the vaccine does get around to us all and does its job .
Maybe we might have an exhibition at the later part of next  year but personaly I would rather wait untill 2022 and know it would be safer .
Bob Tidbury