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Author Topic: Pre owned - German N gauge  (Read 2330 times)

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Offline Euston

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Pre owned - German N gauge
« on: April 25, 2020, 08:16:14 PM »
Hi

Hope everyone is well

Does anyone know other than eBay which sells pre-owned fleischmann German N gauge

Just starting to get into continental N gauge and looking for a few locos / multiple units

I have little to know knowledge in continental N gauge, so advice on good places to buy this would be greatly appreciated 👍

Many thanks

Online njee20

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Re: Pre owned - German N gauge
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2020, 08:23:32 PM »
Paging @ntpntpntp ...

Nick’s your man!

Online ntpntpntp

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Re: Pre owned - German N gauge
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2020, 09:25:50 PM »
To be honest the vast majority of my second hand purchases are from ebay as it gives such convenient access to a large international market. My purchases come from both UK and Germany.

Other than ebay, I look out for trade stands at exhibitions where you can physically examine the models. If possible ask for locos to be test run. 

Here in the South East Kent area there's one trader Ray Morris who I've known since the 70s and have bought quite a few good purchases from over the decades.  There are other traders I see at shows, some with a good choice of stuff but others sadly seem to be offering overpriced worn-out stuff (in my opinion). Some shows I can go round and not find anything useful in Continental N at all.

N Scale CH is another trader I know personally, as the trading name suggests John's focus is on Swiss models
https://www.nscalech.com/


There certainly are shops which deal in second hand Continental models but I've not dealt with them very much.  Others may be better placed to suggest shops to investigate. 


I know that Contikits has been around for decades. Don't think I've ever bought from them, I just remember the adverts in Continental Modeller (speaking of which, it's worth looking in that mag's adverts  :) )
http://www.contikits.com/


As with all second hand purchases it is important that you build up experience and knowledge on how to judge a good condition model from a good quality brand, and what's a fair price of course. Let's be honest that's not something you pick up overnight, you will make a mistake from time to time.   

If an ebay listing takes your fancy then ask for a clear photo of the underside of locos if not provided on the listing, so that you can judge the wear and general condition (fluff etc. is a giveaway of a model that's not been particularly well cared for).  Check for missing buffers, handrails, cracked bodyshells, over-oiling etc.  If the photo is not forthcoming then move on.


Unless you have a particular penchant for collecting old stuff which you accept most likely won't run particularly well, I would advise stay clear of locos from the lesser quality brands (eg. Lima, old Piko, early Ibertren - though a couple of their locos were actually pretty good).   Some of the rolling stock from those brands can still be useful if "cheap and cheerful" (old Piko stock has awful wheels though, which almost always need replacing with something better).

Keep in mind that although older Minitrix, Fleischmann, Arnold etc. from the 70s and 80s can still be useful locos, spares will be getting harder to find.

If there are particular models of interest, you can always post on the forum and ask for opinions / recommendations  :)
« Last Edit: April 25, 2020, 09:34:47 PM by ntpntpntp »
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=50050.0

Offline Euston

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Re: Pre owned - German N gauge
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2020, 01:47:54 AM »
Paging @ntpntpntp ...

Nick’s your man!

Thanks, appreciate it

@ntpntpntp

Wow, thank you, really appreciate all the information, really helpful will definitely take it on board

I did think about buying the continental modeller magazine for information etc

As the locos I'm looking for are Fleischman, such as the ice Intercity, red multiple units ? And db modern stuff

As said my knowledge is basically zero at the moment

Though I am definitely keen on learning more that's for sure

I have purchased a couple of fleischmann locos so far and have been really impressed with the quality and running of them



Offline Globibahn

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Re: Pre owned - German N gauge
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2020, 06:35:18 AM »
Firstly, well done on getting into the best hobby ever!  :thumbsup: :beers:

I'm relatively new to this game (certainly compared to others on this board), having been at it for a year and a half. As Nick says, I've found in my experience Ebay is the best place to aquire second hand Fleischmann, but it's highly recommended you learn how to clean the locos. Even ones which look brand new and immaculate when you receive them can have quite a lot of dirt build up.

A chap sold me an SBB cargo loco advertised as brand new and it clearly wasn't. In fairness it was in good condition but had had loads of usage (I would say at least a year or so) and needed a darned good clean. It does actually run very well incidentally!

Mind you, I've also been sold second hand Minitrix coaches by a friendly small shop, which were advertised as immaculate and again once opened and inspected closely they were not actually so. But I was pleased with them for the price.

When buying any locos at all these days, new or Ebay, I always download the servicing PDF and look at how optimally the decoder socket is positioned for adding my own chips and also at how easy the thing can be cleaned. Some locos like the Fleischmann Tauruses (Tauri!) are difficult to dissasemble as Nick has pointed out before.

When I started, I didn't think I would ever do much loco servicing myself, but it's essential to learn how to do. If you had to send locos off for any problems that ever arise you would be constantly spending a fortune on postage/repair! And other people don't always fix the probems either.

You'll keep on learning the whole way!

Matt

Online AlexanderJesse

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Re: Pre owned - German N gauge
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2020, 07:27:31 AM »
Here in Switzerland I find most stuff on Ricardo.ch ( ricardo.ch/de/c/spur-n-68838/?sort=newest ). Have heard other experiences from vendors, but fits my taste.

On one hand, they verify each participant by sending a letter whose reception must be signed before the postman to check, whether the participant is a real existing person.
On the other hand some people miss the paypal-mechanism which is active in the ebay world.

Maybe the numbers of objects are smaller than ebay germany, but it has a nice assortment
=================
have a disney day
vapour is just water and therefor clean

Online ntpntpntp

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Re: Pre owned - German N gauge
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2020, 09:06:41 AM »
I did think about buying the continental modeller magazine for information etc
It's a good magazine (especially back in 1998 when my layout was in it  :D  :D )

Quote
As the locos I'm looking for are Fleischman, such as the ice Intercity, red multiple units ? And db modern stuff

Well that's been my main theme for exhibition layouts for the last 20-25 years.

Fleischmann offer ICE 1, ICE 2 and ICE T models.  I've had my ICE 2 set since the late 90s, it's still running nicely.  A friend has ICE T.
Minitrix also offer ICE 1 (early models had a weird coupling system which wasn't popular). 
Arnold offer ICE 3, it's a nice set though again with a weird "pin" coupling system on the early model I had.
Hobbytrain are now offering ICE 4 though i don't have one of those yet.

Which "red multiple unit" do you like?   I've probably got one  :)   All good, though I have noticed my BR 610 tilting set is not fond of tight radius curves.

Quote
As said my knowledge is basically zero at the moment

Though I am definitely keen on learning more that's for sure

I have purchased a couple of fleischmann locos so far and have been really impressed with the quality and running of them

Knowledge will come over time :-)    Post a piccie of your locos?


@Globibahn 's post reminds me, are you going DCC or sticking with DC?   As Matt says if you're going DCC then you're best to try and establish whether prospective purchases have a decoder socket fitted?   Focus on more modern products in that case, whereas older models may need hard-wiring.   I've stuck with DC as I have way too many models dating all the way back to the 60s and 70s.


A couple of gratuitous photos of Fleischmann models (apart from the Continental wagon by Arnold).







These are actually Roco models from the 1990s, and still some of my favourites.  The Roco N range  is now part of Fleischmann




Fleischmann loco, Minitrix coaches (very colourful coaches though they are just fantasy  liveries and not from real life). Kids love these at shows, especially Tony The Tiger (next to the signal box)  :)

« Last Edit: April 26, 2020, 09:28:45 AM by ntpntpntp »
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=50050.0

Offline Euston

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Re: Pre owned - German N gauge
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2020, 09:38:35 AM »
Thanks Matt for the information, very much appreciated 👍

@ntpntpntp

I'm not sure of the name of the red dmu I'm looking for just know it's either a 3/4 car unit

I was looking at a fleischmann ice set on eBay - possibly ice 1 it was a 3 car set or part of a train set

I will try and pick up a copy of a continental modeller magazine, and if possible will try to track down 1998 issue on eBay to see your layout

With regards to dcc/dc is a funny one for me

As I was OO gauge but don't have the space for it, hence moving to N gauge

All my OO stuff is dcc sound fitted, which is cool, but sounds not essential

With N gauge, I'm leaning towards DC analogue, for a few reasons really

My planned layout won't be that big, and DC is cheaper and more available locos etc

I know dcc has alot of positives, I have thought long and hard about this especially coming from dcc sound, analogue is fine with me

Also at the moment, I have some fleischmann track I got in a set, I also had OO fleischmann track and know it was great for dcc but not analogue due to its contiuneus power and all locos on track move at the same time

I just got some Kato track too so probably going to stick with Kato, though I do like the fleischmann track, it's just I can't seem to isolate locos on analogue ?

And I will try and post a picture of my locos I only have two at the moment



Online ntpntpntp

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Re: Pre owned - German N gauge
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2020, 09:59:01 AM »
I was looking at a fleischmann ice set on eBay - possibly ice 1 it was a 3 car set or part of a train set
Yes the start packs tend to have just the power car(s) and one middle coach, you need to buy additional coaches separately to form a full train.  ICE 2 is handy as they run in "half-sets".

Quote
I will try and pick up a copy of a continental modeller magazine, and if possible will try to track down 1998 issue on eBay to see your layout
 
Oops brain playing tricks on me this morning.  Königshafen was in October and November 1997.  Interesting to look at those photos with the older stock I was running back then, and the things that have changed since such as station canopies and other scenes added  :)

Quote
Also at the moment, I have some fleischmann track I got in a set, I also had OO fleischmann track and know it was great for dcc but not analogue due to its contiuneus power and all locos on track move at the same time

I just got some Kato track too so probably going to stick with Kato, though I do like the fleischmann track, it's just I can't seem to isolate locos on analogue ?


Really? Flesichmann points in both scales should be capable of being used in "thinking" mode as the continentals sometimes call it - I call it "power routing".  Usually there are two little wire clips that you remove to isolate tracks.  Remember these points were around long before DCC came along.  See page 2 of the instructions under "Denkende Weichen"  ("thinking points"):

https://www.fleischmann.de/doc/an/2/de/BA_6170_200911.pdf

Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=50050.0

Offline Euston

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Re: Pre owned - German N gauge
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2020, 11:01:30 AM »
Ah that makes sense

I didn't know you had to remove wire clips from the points, will look into this further

The ice 2 set will look out for, it's just a case of waiting until one comes up for a reasonable price

Regarding the points, why would they have them metal clips on them if they don't isolate the locos ?

Online ntpntpntp

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Re: Pre owned - German N gauge
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2020, 11:41:26 AM »
Regarding the points, why would they have them metal clips on them if they don't isolate the locos ?

For one thing it allows you run through the point from the frog end without changing the blades, the train simply pushes the blades over as wheels pass through. It only works with point designs with "soft blades" which DON'T have a strong over-centre locking spring like Peco has. 

Having permanently live routes also removes the reliance on blade contact for power through the point.   Blades get tarnished or dirty over time (something Peco point users will be familiar with).

Kato points have screws underneath to set them as  power-routing or not.

If you want to isolate a track section you have a rail break in the siding and an on-off switch. Simple enough, and that's what I do anyway with my Peco trackwork.

Worth noting that Peco's new Unifrog points are NOT power-routing. They are intended to be DCC friendly,  which is great but a pain for DC people who prefer power routing points.  You can cut jumper wires underneath but even then they still don't quite behave exactly the same.
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=50050.0

Offline Euston

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Re: Pre owned - German N gauge
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2020, 12:03:38 PM »
Ah I see fair enough

Seems all rather complicated, so have lots to learn, I'm not good with electrics tho, hence why Kato track appeals due to the plug and play nature of the points

As said though I like this fleischmann track so if I can manage to understand how to make the points function how I would like then that would be ideal

Peco track, I'm not going to use that as I know it's good track, I just prefer fleischmann and Kato track

And with regards to German fleischmann railcars/DMUs I have looked on eBay and cannot find any, so I'm assuming they are difficult to come by ?

Offline Euston

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Re: Pre owned - German N gauge
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2020, 12:21:21 PM »
Also

It's hard to find new fleischmann stuff in the UK unless it's massively over priced

Is it possible to buy directly from Germany at more reasonable prices, if so are there any recommendations on who is a trusted reliable dealer ?



Offline Euston

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Re: Pre owned - German N gauge
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2020, 12:35:23 PM »
 I think I'm going to struggle with the continental stuff to be honest

As looking for an ice train for instance, you fleischmann and Arnold doing them all different prices, which is better ?

Then minitrix have them too, and some other nice stuff

It's really difficult to know what to look for with such limited knowledge, at the moment I feel well out of my depth, and don't know where to start lol

Offline Globibahn

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Re: Pre owned - German N gauge
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2020, 12:48:54 PM »
I think I'm going to struggle with the continental stuff to be honest

As looking for an ice train for instance, you fleischmann and Arnold doing them all different prices, which is better ?

Then minitrix have them too, and some other nice stuff

It's really difficult to know what to look for with such limited knowledge, at the moment I feel well out of my depth, and don't know where to start lol

Fleischman ICE is the one to go for. The original (red/pink stripe) ones cost about £100+ on e of bay.

 

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