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Author Topic: Consisting Sound and non-sound locos  (Read 222 times)

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Offline njee20

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Consisting Sound and non-sound locos
« on: March 31, 2020, 04:13:09 PM »
I'm going to be building a new layout at some point. I've got quite a lot of Dapol Megafrets, and Stobart containers, and will be building a WCML layout. My (sound fitted) Dapol 68 wouldn't manage the rake I used to run, so I don't fancy it handling the additional 50% I think I can get away with on the new layout. They often double head IRL, so I think that's an option.

However, I don't want to buy another sound fitted one, mainly because I'm cheap, and I'd rather have a different sound fitted loco, somehow having a matched pair both with sound seems a waste.

However... can you consist sound and non-sound fitted DCC locos succesfully? My instinct tells me no, because there's a significant delay between increasing the throttle and the loco starting on a sound fitted decoder, which I think is in the firmware, and can't be accounted for in CVs. I guess you could increase CV2, but that feels hacky, and likely to cause problems. Any other way of doing it? A quick Google didn't really help much.

I'm happy for the locos to be a semi-permanent pair, so I wonder about the viability of wiring them together, with a 16ohm speaker in each (it is that way around, for a net impedance of 8ohms right!?), using a Next-18 adapter in the 'rear' loco. But I don't know if that would actually work in reality. You'd need 6 wires between them I think; orange/grey/red/black/speaker wires which feels like quite a lot!

Controller is an ECoS, although I'm flirting with automation, likely through I-Train.

Online Nigel Cliffe

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Re: Consisting Sound and non-sound locos
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2020, 07:06:31 PM »
I think some decoders can be matched to a decent extent, including startup delays.   May mean a non-sound decoder from same maker as sound decoder. 

In most sound decoders, there is a startup period (starter motor turning), then when throttle opened a delay of fixed time (typically brake release etc..),  then loco follows acceleration profile (CV2 etc.  thereafter).   The acceleration profile may be more complex than CV2, depends on decoder.   

What do you have as sound decoder in the sound-fitted locos ?   


Nigel


Offline njee20

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Re: Consisting Sound and non-sound locos
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2020, 07:16:10 PM »
Just the man I was hoping may reply :-)

Itís whatever Dapol fit to the 68, a Zimo MX658 or MX659 I think. May have to bite the bullet and try!

Offline Kaput

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Re: Consisting Sound and non-sound locos
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2020, 08:13:24 PM »
Factory sound 68 should be a LokSound Micro V4 so you'll want the LokPilot version of that - should be able to consist and account for start up delays easily enough.

Offline njee20

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Re: Consisting Sound and non-sound locos
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2020, 08:38:25 PM »
Are they ESU? Im not so sure. My ECOS recognises Loksound locos immediately with Railcom+, I donít remember the 68 doing that. Unless itís disabled by default.

Online Nigel Cliffe

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Re: Consisting Sound and non-sound locos
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2020, 11:08:20 PM »
No idea what the maker's fit in locos - find out by reading back CV8 which will give the decoder maker's ID.   

However, the delay features in non-sound decoders are probably easier to match with ESU than anything else, so a LokPilot v4/v5 in a suitably small format for N would be my starting place, rather than a Zimo. ( I'd even try a LokPilot to match a Zimo sound decoder, because of the features in the ESU decoder). 

May be possible on a Zimo with a bit of playing about, but much more explicitly documented for ESU in this case. 

Setting the CV's for it manually is moderately involved (will involve ESU's massively complicated function mapping table, and setting two index CV's to correct values before each actual change is made).   Use of either JMRI/DecoderPro, or a LokProgrammer, should makes those settings a lot simpler - both use essentially the same presentation of information for these changes. 



Offline njee20

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Re: Consisting Sound and non-sound locos
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2020, 11:16:31 PM »
Thanks Nigel, already a JMRI user. Iíve seen Loksound V4s use bit 3 of cv124 to control the start up delay, Iíll have a nosey at the Lokpilot and see if thereís anything comparable.

Sounds like it could be worth trying at least, which is encouraging!

Online Nigel Cliffe

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Re: Consisting Sound and non-sound locos
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2020, 08:38:24 AM »
ESU have made the LokPilot V4's similar to the LokSound.    There is a bit in the manual about this stuff, including a paragraph on a virtual sound startup key - thus the delay only applies when the sound is "running" by pressing the sound function key  (or in this case, the virtual sound function key because it makes no actual noises).

Nigel

Offline njee20

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Re: Consisting Sound and non-sound locos
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2020, 06:49:09 PM »
Thanks Nigel, very helpful. Sounds like I need to procure another 68 and a Lokpilot V4.0!

 

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