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Author Topic: Set Track and New Loco Compatability  (Read 691 times)

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Offline KevinM723

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Set Track and New Loco Compatability
« on: February 24, 2020, 07:57:22 PM »
Hi,
 :searchingsign:
As in previous posts I have used set track points and curves with flexi on long straights as previous attempts with streamline bends failed terribly.  Now the set track points and curves to straighten them out are radius 1. 

Much to my cost I discovered that all Dapol locos are designed for radius 2 (apparently written on the boxes which are not displayed on web pages when ordering!) and up and therefore precludes me buying anymore of their locos.

My vintage Graham Farish and Minitrix locos are fine on radius 1 and indeed make very good digital conversions.

Can anyone advise if the modern Graham Farish locos are similarly restricted to larger radii as their helpline did not respond?

Thanks :helpneededsign:

Online ntpntpntp

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Re: Set Track and New Loco Compatability
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2020, 08:32:33 PM »
Unfortunately it's part of the striving for more detail and realistic looking models, it seems you have to compromise on minimum radius - or at least that's how it seems to be with British N.  If there's one thing I hated about old Farish its the awfully undersized leading wheels on the steam locos in order to clear the cylinders.

It's not all Dapol locos, after all the short tank locos will have no problem at all.  The shaft drive mechanism for tender locos tends not to like 9" radius.  I don't regularly run British N nowadays, but  do I have a Britannia where I ended up making a slightly longer loco/tender drawbar to allow it to get round my layout.

On the other hand as a European N modeller I've hardly encountered anything from the various main manufacturers which won't comfortably handle 9" radius, and I think a lot of that is down to the European brands' track systems going down to less than 9" minimum:  their loyal fans would be very vocal in their disapproval if a model won't work on their existing layouts  :)
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "KŲnigshafen" exhibition layout!

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Set Track and New Loco Compatability
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2020, 08:40:48 PM »

Much to my cost I discovered that all Dapol locos are designed for radius 2 (apparently written on the boxes which are not displayed on web pages when ordering!) and up and therefore precludes me buying anymore of their locos.


If that is so (it's not on any of my Dapol boxes but I know they intended to do it) then, to me, it's a 'cover your arse' ploy. I don't know which you refer to or want, but as ntpx3 says stuff like panniers are no problem. Others I know will traverse 9" radius are the Terrier, 45xx tank, 14xx tank, Ivatt tank, classes 121/122, 22, 26, 33 and 35.

Offline ScottishModeller

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Re: Set Track and New Loco Compatability
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2020, 08:49:25 PM »
Hi all,

Why do we insist on keeping using 'Minimum Radius' as a standard?

It says it in the name - minimum is minimul!

For years the N Gauge modeller has been yelling at the makers for models with better, finer detail.

Why do they not apply this to the track aspect of their modelling?

I had one guy who complained that he could not get his nice, new, better detailed, models to go round his corners.

I agreed to go along and see what was happenning to result in this problem.

When I looked at the layout it was obvious (at least to me).

You cannot have trains running at full speed down a 12ft layout into the corners that turned through 180 degrees in a 20in width board.

But - he liked to have his trains running at what he referred to as proper speed, not slow.

I bit the bullet and risked upsetting him as I advised that he had 3 choices to go at.

1 - Accept that the way he ran trains meant they would fall off on the corners
2 - Run trains at a slower spped so that they went round his corners
3 - Widen his baseboards to 30 in so that he could run the trains at the spped he wanted and still get round the corners.

I also advised that with option 1 he would continue to need my services to fix his trains after they came off!

Not sure whether or not I made any difference, but he doesn't bring stuff to me as often to get it fixed!

So - stop moaning about minimum radius, everyone seems to be happy to have finer detail on the trains, it's time to accept that you need to deal with the track to make it fit for purpose!

Thanks
Phil H
Thanks
Phil Holman

Online Bealman

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Re: Set Track and New Loco Compatability
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2020, 04:40:48 AM »
I guess it boils down to space restraints?  :hmmm:
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline Chris Morris

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Re: Set Track and New Loco Compatability
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2020, 06:56:05 AM »
I have found that some modern Farish pacifics aren't good on R1 curves either. A lot of larger steam outline locos from both Dapol and Farish don't like the set track points. I see this as fair enough; they are big locos and R1 curves are very sharp. All diesels I have are ok except for the class 50 which will throw whatever it is pulling off the track on a sharp curve. The class 50 has a nice close coupling which looks so much better than other locos but this is the trade off. The N gauge sector of the hobby should really make it clear that R1 curves and points are not compatible with large locos in order to avoid disappointment.

I only used R1 on my first layout which was a small branch line and wasn't right for large locos anyway. Personally I would rather have better looking large locos that don't like R1 than toy like locos that can. Large locos look stupid on R1 curves anyway but it should be made clear that this is the case.
Working doesn't seem to be the perfect thing for me so I'll continue to play.
Steve Marriott / Ronnie Lane

Online Bealman

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Re: Set Track and New Loco Compatability
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2020, 07:02:24 AM »
My philosophy has always been to use the largest radius you can accommodate.

Looks better, too.
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline silly moo

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Re: Set Track and New Loco Compatability
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2020, 08:28:52 AM »
I think part of the problem is that beginners assume that if first radius track is sold then N gauge locos should go round it without a problem. The fact that quite a lot of them donít isnít prominently displayed on packaging and websites.

N gauge is often chosen for its space saving properties and although first radius curves might not look good to experienced modellers they are a fact of life if you are short of space. I wonder how many loco returns and people giving up N gauge are down to this incompatibility?

Iíve just had a look at my last Farish purchase, there is nothing on the outside packaging mentioning track radius, you have to wait until you get to the instruction sheet to discover that it is designed for 2nd radius. If you had bought it online you would not have known until you opened the box.

Offline Fardap

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Re: Set Track and New Loco Compatability
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2020, 11:36:10 AM »
I think part of the problem is that beginners assume that if first radius track is sold then N gauge locos should go round it without a problem. The fact that quite a lot of them donít isnít prominently displayed on packaging and websites.
...
Iíve just had a look at my last Farish purchase, there is nothing on the outside packaging mentioning track radius, you have to wait until you get to the instruction sheet to discover that it is designed for 2nd radius. If you had bought it online you would not have known until you opened the box.

Dapol do now put it on the outside label and I think as a rule they are saying never less than R2...



Offline silly moo

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Re: Set Track and New Loco Compatability
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2020, 11:50:43 AM »
Good to know that Dapol now put minimum radius on their boxes, Hornby do as well. I checked Hattons and Rails websites and they donít mention suitable radii in their listings so the unwary buyer could easily end up with an unsuitable loco/track combination.

This set track and radius thing is something you learn about through experience but it could prove costly and put some people off N completely.

Offline Pobda

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Re: Set Track and New Loco Compatability
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2020, 12:19:27 PM »
438mm is a pretty startling R2 or am I, as usual, having an understanding failure?

Pobda

Online chrism

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Re: Set Track and New Loco Compatability
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2020, 12:25:50 PM »
438mm is a pretty startling R2 or am I, as usual, having an understanding failure?

Peco say that it's 263.5mm, so there's a discrepancy somewhere

Offline PennineWagons

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Re: Set Track and New Loco Compatability
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2020, 12:58:42 PM »
The Dapol box in the photo is for a 00 model, hence the much bigger measurement for Radius 2. Same principle applies though.
PW

Offline Fardap

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Re: Set Track and New Loco Compatability
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2020, 01:30:03 PM »
The Dapol box in the photo is for a 00 model, hence the much bigger measurement for Radius 2. Same principle applies though.
PW

Was the first image I found as know they do it on all their boxes N and OO

Offline jpendle

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Re: Set Track and New Loco Compatability
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2020, 02:30:50 PM »
A few clues to look for.

Dapol numbers beginning with 4 are 4mm i.e. OO, beginning with 2 is 2mm, i.e. N
Second it has a 21 pin decoder, neither Dapol nor Farish use those in N gauge.

As far as R1 goes, Peco seem to be positively glacial when it comes to change. R1 was probably fine in the 60's and 70's but the manufacturers have moved on, it's just Peco who haven't. Their entire offering in N track is a compromise. They probably only created the Unifrog points because their tools were life expired. Don't get me wrong, my layout is exclusively Peco track, but it would be nice if they were a little more adventurous sometimes!

Regards,

John P
Check out my layout thread.

Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=39501.msg476247#msg476247

 

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