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Author Topic: Baseboard Surface  (Read 2643 times)

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Online degsy_safc

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2020, 01:36:03 PM »
Hi All,

Well as you have all said on numerous occasions most plans are conjured up and change multiple times before settling on a final design.

So was talking with the Mrs the other day and she wasn't happy with the 'through the partition wall' plan due to the safety implications of the long straight running only a couple of feet away from the loft hatch opening. Her thought was that if I needed to get to a train in that side, id forget the hatch is open and walk straight over the hole and fall 8 feet into the bedroom below  :o

So it looks like I may now be working towards an L shaped layout all in the same room. Will still be constrained to absolute sizes, as she has some gym equipment in the same room. Things like a rowing machine, kettlebells, floor mat etc, but I've just created a mock up for her to see later tonight, very close to what would be finished heights and sizes.

As it was her who said she wasn't particularly happy punching through the partition, I'm hoping that she'll be happier with this option, overall I'll lose just short of 30 inches in end to end length, but as its roundy roundy roughly 60" overall per loop.

If she is happy I'll mock up a new baseboard canvas image so you can see what space will be available..

in terms of the existing baseboards, I've just shortened the heights of the legs slightly this morning in prep for adding the levelling feet, still need to get some bracing for the legs, but its been snowing up here this morning so will visit timber yard later this afternoon..

Cheers Derek

Cheers Derek

Online ntpntpntp

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2020, 01:43:28 PM »
Like the idea of fully covering the surface then just trimming with a knife - shame you’ve lost the pictures, but the words have confirmed that underlay could be a good trackbed.


100% coverage then removing sections is very wasteful but I never found rubber available in strip form whereas cork is so I had to go for a full sheet.

Yebut - surely you just cut the sheet into strips?  I buy my cork in sheets and cut it into 1" wide strips, 1/2" strips for curves (easier to bend two pieces either side of the centre line), or wider pieces for under buildings etc.

It's not just the wastefulness of 100% coverage, it's also the problem if it making the whole baseboard so unnaturally flat and creating a surface not conducive to adding scenery.
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Online degsy_safc

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2020, 03:48:50 PM »
Yebut - surely you just cut the sheet into strips?  I buy my cork in sheets and cut it into 1" wide strips, 1/2" strips for curves (easier to bend two pieces either side of the centre line), or wider pieces for under buildings etc.
Thats a fair point @ntpntpntp , if I do use the flooring underlay method, 1 roll would probably be more than enough if I cut it into strips.

It's not just the wastefulness of 100% coverage, it's also the problem if it making the whole baseboard so unnaturally flat and creating a surface not conducive to adding scenery.
But the baseboard is completely flat anyway as its just made up of sections of ply on a frame, also why will it be difficult to add scenery to a flat baseboard please?

Cheers Derek
Cheers Derek

Online ntpntpntp

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2020, 04:36:23 PM »

But the baseboard is completely flat anyway as its just made up of sections of ply on a frame, also why will it be difficult to add scenery to a flat baseboard please?


Ah well, totally flat baseboards are a pet hate of mine :D . I would always recommend going for an open frame whenever your intended scene would suit it, it will give you much better scope for undulating the scenery in a realistic fashion, even if only gentle slopes etc. I say "whenever the scene suits it" as there are of course man made land areas which are flat, and you will need some flat surfaces for the track, buildings, roads etc.  but generally nature isn't flat!

If you do want to add some hills (for example) then I would argue it's easier to fix scenery to risers coming up from an open frame than to plonk stuff on a flat surface and of course so much easier to go down lower than the track level for rivers, underbridges etc.   If you cover that flat surface with cork (or rubber sheet  :D ) and you've made it even worse for fixing things down other than buildings with nice flat bases that you can glue in place.

Something which comes up quite frequently is when someone wants to add a higher level track to their layout. That in itself is not a problem but then they realise that with a solid top they won't be able to get to the wiring and point motors for that higher level track.  With open-frame it's no problem.


This an old image I use to illustrate my approach to open-frame construction.  It's allowed me to have scenery above and below track level, with both under-and over-bridges



... and those same boards running across the front of my main layout at a show

« Last Edit: February 24, 2020, 07:01:49 PM by ntpntpntp, Reason: typos »
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Offline GreyWolf

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2020, 06:45:02 PM »
I have to agree with @ntpntpntp  ... my layout is a flat board (two in fact) which I now know was the wrong thing to do in terms of the line profile and scenics. But it was much easier to get initial track down for a beginner like me!

Cheers  :beers:

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2020, 08:29:10 PM »

Yebut - surely you just cut the sheet into strips?

Not really practical at the time. I was in full employment so money was not an issue and the sheet (on a roll) was pretty big! Added to which my track plan changed a few times and rubber does not bend too well to curves :no:

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2020, 12:55:29 AM »
Don't ask what he did with all the spare rubber  :D
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #37 on: February 25, 2020, 01:36:26 AM »
Regarding baseboard construction, as others have said, once you begin a "real" model railway, open frame is the method of choice.

This allows scenery above, and probably more importantly, below track level. This allows features such as bridges spanning rivers and roads to be incorporated.

Even small gullies can make the layout more interesting.  The gap between the line at the top and the line at the bottom of this photo of my layout is only an inch or so wide. Both tracks are at the same level, but not having wood between them allowed scenery to dip down between them.

The gullet is generally a mess, with old tyres, oil drums and even an old sink having been dumped there.

The water issuing from the pipe is a trick I learned from the Railway of the Month Dec 1966 RM mag. The pipe is the ink tube from a Biro, and the water effect achieved by sticking a bit sellotape between it and the ground, then dribbling polystyrene cement down it.

Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Online degsy_safc

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #38 on: February 25, 2020, 08:22:53 AM »

Ah well, totally flat baseboards are a pet hate of mine :D . I would always recommend going for an open frame whenever your intended scene would suit it, it will give you much better scope for undulating the scenery in a realistic fashion, even if only gentle slopes etc. I say "whenever the scene suits it" as there are of course man made land areas which are flat, and you will need some flat surfaces for the track, buildings, roads etc.  but generally nature isn't flat!

If you do want to add some hills (for example) then I would argue it's easier to fix scenery to risers coming up from an open frame than to plonk stuff on a flat surface and of course so much easier to go down lower than the track level for rivers, underbridges etc.   If you cover that flat surface with cork (or rubber sheet  :D ) and you've made it even worse for fixing things down other than buildings with nice flat bases that you can glue in place.

Something which comes up quite frequently is when someone wants to add a higher level track to their layout. That in itself is not a problem but then they realise that with a solid top they won't be able to get to the wiring and point motors for that higher level track.  With open-frame it's no problem.


This an old image I use to illustrate my approach to open-frame construction.  It's allowed me to have scenery above and below track level, with both under-and over-bridges



... and those same boards running across the front of my main layout at a show



Hi Ntpntpntp,

Thanks for the pictures and explanation, I can see the advantages in the open frame construction method. However I'm literally brand new to the hobby and wouldn't know the first place to start in terms of building the structure. Does the track plan need to be pretty much cast in stone before you start to make the frame? Do you cut flats and undulations on all of the cross members from the outset or is it a flat grid to start with and add risers / flat sections as you go?

Unfortunately I've already bought the materials to make a flat baseboard, and in fact have created one full side of the 'L', i'm stuck with it now so will have to find ways to get round the issues you have highlighted, hopefully there is plenty of good advice on the forum for flat baseboard scenery, to be fair I haven't even looked for that just yet.

Thanks again Derek 

 
Cheers Derek

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2020, 08:32:17 AM »
I have to agree with @ntpntpntp  ... my layout is a flat board (two in fact) which I now know was the wrong thing to do in terms of the line profile and scenics. But it was much easier to get initial track down for a beginner like me!

Cheers  :beers:

Hi Greywolf,

Im in exactly the same position as you were by the sound of it, I'm in no hurry to get track down in fairness. I did that on my test track and had multiple iterations before I got something that I was relatively pleased with. The constant lifting relaying didn't do the fishplates any good and I pretty much had to replace all of them. As a result I'd like to have something down that I can see before I make a start to make sure I don't end up lifting / relaying.

Cheers Derek 
Cheers Derek

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2020, 08:35:04 AM »
Yes, you pretty much need to know where the track is going.

But construction isn't difficult. A two by one frame work, with risers screwed vertically to the frame. The idea started, I believe, by Linn Westcott who was boss and pioneer of the American Model Railroader mag.

Cut ply trackbed to shape, curved if necessary, using a jig saw, and lay track on that.

Then enjoy building scenery around it!!
« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 08:36:06 AM by Bealman »
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Online degsy_safc

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2020, 08:44:50 AM »
Regarding baseboard construction, as others have said, once you begin a "real" model railway, open frame is the method of choice.

This allows scenery above, and probably more importantly, below track level. This allows features such as bridges spanning rivers and roads to be incorporated.

Even small gullies can make the layout more interesting.  The gap between the line at the top and the line at the bottom of this photo of my layout is only an inch or so wide. Both tracks are at the same level, but not having wood between them allowed scenery to dip down between them.

The gullet is generally a mess, with old tyres, oil drums and even an old sink having been dumped there.

The water issuing from the pipe is a trick I learned from the Railway of the Month Dec 1966 RM mag. The pipe is the ink tube from a Biro, and the water effect achieved by sticking a bit sellotape between it and the ground, then dribbling polystyrene cement down it.



Hi George,

Like the pipe with water coming out of it, really neat  :thumbsup:

Cheers Derek
Cheers Derek

Online ntpntpntp

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2020, 09:08:04 AM »

Hi Ntpntpntp,

Thanks for the pictures and explanation [of open frame baseboards].... Does the track plan need to be pretty much cast in stone before you start to make the frame? Do you cut flats and undulations on all of the cross members from the outset or is it a flat grid to start with and add risers / flat sections as you go?

Yes you do need to have planned out your trackwork and also have a reasonable idea of how you want the scenery to flow.   
My approach is to use 9mm ply to create the sides of a box for each module, with a light frame around the bottom.  I then attach a few cross members to which the risers can be screwed, and 9mm ply as the track bed.  Once I've decided on the scenic contours at the edges I then cut away the sides and ends to create a profile.

Quote
Unfortunately I've already bought the materials to make a flat baseboard, and in fact have created one full side of the 'L', i'm stuck with it now so will have to find ways to get round the issues you have highlighted, hopefully there is plenty of good advice on the forum for flat baseboard scenery, to be fair I haven't even looked for that just yet.

Well I'm sure everyone starts out with a flat top board and it's great for when you're playing around changing your design and trying things out.  It will serve you well for a while I'm sure, and perhaps later on you might decide to remove the top and just use your frame as a basis for the next phase of the layout? It really depends on how you want the layout to look.

I do have some flat top boards, my latest project takes that approach because it is a loco depot with a high density of track and buildings etc. over the vast majority of the area.  Even so it did irritate me, and I just had to take a jigsaw to the front edge and carve a few little undulations  :D



Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Online degsy_safc

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2020, 10:07:12 AM »
Hi All,

As mentioned previously this is the new 'L' shaped baseboard that I'm going to adopt, the head of division gave the go ahead last night  :thumbsup:.



It will all be in one section of the loft so I'd like to have scenery on all of it - even if it is just a few small rises for fields and a small town / industrial scape, maybe parcels depot?

I want a reasonable sized station and 3 loops, I did a very quick mock up last night with an inclined section with all 3 loops passing over the lower 3 loops in a figure of 8, but it leaves little scope for sidings, as they would need to be where the ascents / descents are happening. (see image below)



As advised by George @Bealman Ive tried to create curves through the station, but the software I'm using doesn't allow to curve platforms, hence just the names, the station is too big on the plan, but it gives me an idea.

If I need to keep the 3 loops on the level then so be it and if anyone has any suggestions or could scribble / annotate the layout image - id be very grateful.

Thanks in advance

Cheers Derek



Cheers Derek

Offline Bealman

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2020, 10:28:06 AM »
At this point I'll bow out for a little while, because planning is not my strong point. However there are others here who have considerable expertise.

I love L shaped layouts, but my question is, why three loops?

Most main lines are two tracks.
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

 

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