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Author Topic: Hauling issues  (Read 951 times)

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Offline ChrisWC342

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Hauling issues
« on: December 15, 2019, 02:14:23 PM »
HI All, I'm new to the forum and the world of model railways in that I am in the process of building my first ever layout. Now this has been in the planning stage for the past 40 years having read many books, magazines, attending exhibitions and watching lots of YouTubers. I have laid a few baseboards but then moved, had a family etc, yes life got in the way but I now have a loft in which to put a 38' x 7'6" layout with a working area in the centre.
So my problem is that I have built a large oval track to practice my track laying, learnt an awful lot there. Started to run in my brand new Graham Farish Princess Coronation Class 46235 'City of Birmingham' BR Green Late Crest. I started with half hour half speed forward then same again backwards with no problems whatsoever. I then attached four 40 year old Lima carriages from my collection having checked the wheel spacing and that they run free. Then when I try to pull at half speed especially on bends it really struggles, in fact it struggles with just one carriage. I have cleaned and vacuumed the tracks and tested the whole track with a circuit tester which fully lights up all the way round. Power is connected to both ends of the oval track circuit. I have even cleaned all the wheels on both loco and carriages and the problem still persists. I am now at my wits end as I have no idea what the problem is, can anyone please help.
Regards Chris

Offline Papyrus

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Re: Hauling issues
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2019, 02:20:51 PM »
Hello Chris, and  :welcomesign: from another Chris!

Can't help you with your specific problem but there will be somebody on the forum who can. No question goes unanswered! (Or very rarely...)

Cheers,

Chris
"Outside of a dog, a book is probably man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."  Groucho Marx

Offline ntpntpntp

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Re: Hauling issues
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2019, 02:28:22 PM »
Welcome Chris!

So... in what way does your loco struggle?  Does it slow right down or is it slipping its wheels?

How tight are the curves?

Those old Lima carriages are a little heavier than some modern coaches as I recall, but should run freely enough.  The wheels continue to spin for a couple of seconds if you hold the coach upside down and spin them by finger?  Are the bogies swivelling freely?

What other rolling stock have you got, and does your loco struggle with that stock too?
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Offline RailGooner

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Re: Hauling issues
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2019, 02:42:10 PM »
Welcome aboard Chris! :wave:

Re your problem: nothing to add to the sound diagnostic questions posed by ntpntpntp.
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Offline AndyRA

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Re: Hauling issues
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2019, 02:55:49 PM »
This is not a new problem with Farish Steam Locos. Going back many years I found you could get two identical Locos, one would pull a reasonable load without trouble, the other would slip and struggle with the same load. Not familiar with the latest Farish types and if they are Tender drive rather than done via the Loco ? I know of the older types it might be worth looking at the coupling between the Loco and tender. Sometimes if the coupling is slightly bent it will  lift the rear driving wheels from the track, which is not noticeable at a glance, leading to loss of tractive effort. I managed to adjust the coupling so the wheels were now all in contact with the rail, which led to an improvement in performance.
If it looks difficult it probably is, but might as well get on with it anyway!

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Offline ChrisWC342

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Re: Hauling issues
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2019, 02:57:14 PM »
Hi everybody.
Thanks so much for the quick response and warm welcome.
Are you a real Gooner, Railgooner, cos the missus is big time, I'm also a veteran.
In answer to your reply ntpntpntp it seems to only occur on the bends or just coming off the bends which are 36" radius. It slows down and as a result the wheels slip but not really sure why, cant be a weight issue surely with just one carriage attached. Lima carriage feels as light as a feather but I have nothing to compare it with but I have purchased some brand new rolling stock which I will have a go with, thanks for the idea.
So I will test it with them and get back to you. Oh I am using a brand new Gaugemaster Combi as a controller on my test track but for my main layout which will be DCC I have got a NCE Power Cab.
Regards Chris

Offline ChrisWC342

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Re: Hauling issues
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2019, 03:00:04 PM »
Thanks AndyRA. I think my new one is Engine driven with no connection between Engine or Tender anymore. I will check the coupling, could be an issue there.
Cheers Chris

Offline ChrisWC342

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Re: Hauling issues
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2019, 05:46:39 PM »
My world gets worse.
Well my City of Birmingham seems to struggle on bends, seems ok on straights but suffers on bends, struggles with three coaches and unable to pull four. It seems it loses power on the bends but the circuit tester shows no issues. Track has been cleaned so many times you could shave by it. I have no idea whats causing the issue. I have even tried pulling Peco rolling stock, not too bad but having problems with the coupling as the rolling stock is so light and of a different height to the loco, they keep coming adrift all over the place, bends or straights.
On top of that I have a new Dapol Flying Scotsman, 9 months old, never been run. Thought I would run it in to cheer myself up. On running it in after 10 minutes it came to a grinding halt. The driving gear on the left side looking at it straight on had come away from the body of the engine and twisted it all out of shape, also the small plastic rod that connects the tender to the engine keeps falling out.
Not the best introduction to the hobby.
Regards Chris

Offline ntpntpntp

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Re: Hauling issues
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2019, 06:08:54 PM »
Oh dear this is not a good start for you  :no:       

Sadly some folk seem to have trouble with the Dapol drive shaft: the trick is always to pick up loco and tender together in one hand to avoid flexing the two parts and definitely avoid squashing the rods and valve gear.  Their steamers do seem to have rather flimsy rods and valve gear which do have to be treated delicately.   You've had it less than a year, it should go back to the shop if it's just fallen apart like that.

Did you buy these locos from a local model ship you could take them back to for a quick check-over? Maybe the brand new Farish also needs to go back?  Difficult to say. Sometimes it needs a modeller familiar with N gauge models to take a look.
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Online Dr Al

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Re: Hauling issues
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2019, 06:42:55 PM »
The driving gear on the left side looking at it straight on had come away from the body of the engine and twisted it all out of shape, also the small plastic rod that connects the tender to the engine keeps falling out.

The valve gear needs care - it is only bonded to the running plate. It's not uncommon for that to detach, but I've repaired several like this, so it isn't game over.

Driveshaft between loco and tender should not spontaneously detach, and if lifting the loco, you need to lift both tender and loco at same time - if not then it likely will detach as the weight of the tender pulls it downwards.

Cheers,
Alan
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Online Dr Al

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Re: Hauling issues
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2019, 06:47:18 PM »
My world gets worse.
Well my City of Birmingham seems to struggle on bends, seems ok on straights but suffers on bends, struggles with three coaches and unable to pull four. It seems it loses power on the bends but the circuit tester shows no issues. Track has been cleaned so many times you could shave by it. I have no idea whats causing the issue. I have even tried pulling Peco rolling stock, not too bad but having problems with the coupling as the rolling stock is so light and of a different height to the loco, they keep coming adrift all over the place, bends or straights.

Lima stock is from a different era - running it with a new tool Farish loco it's not surprising you are having issues.

But for folks to help more I suspect you need to post some photos or video of the exact setup, showing the exact problems - it may not be the loco, it could be something to do with the track for instance.

On the loco - if it's a new tooling model it should have traction tyres on the rear driving wheels - are those present?

Cheers
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.”Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline Bob Tidbury

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Re: Hauling issues
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2019, 07:48:44 PM »
Chris WC342  Are your curves settrack or flexi track ?
If they are flexitrack make sure the track is still the right gauge ,if you have bent it round the curve you might have inadvertently squeezed it out of gauge making ithe wheels of the loco a tight fit I hope this makes sense ,years ago when I started in N gauge I made that mistake and it took me ages to fathom out what was wrong .You can buy things called track setters to help you laying track  or a track roller  gauge to check that the track is ok .
Bob Tidbury

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Re: Hauling issues
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2019, 08:34:37 PM »
..
Are you a real Gooner, Railgooner, cos the missus is big time, I'm also a veteran.
...

Yes, all of our family unit (myself, MBH, and our girls) are. We spend a lot of time supporting each other these days though. :'( My brother follows Citeh, so I've blocked his number today. :'(
« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 08:35:46 PM by RailGooner »
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Offline N_GaugeModeller

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Re: Hauling issues
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2019, 08:46:52 PM »
A very odd issue which might be pointing to an issue with the coaches, I have two of the Coronations and both happily pull 12 Farish Mk1 Coaches around my large oval layout, if you push the coaches on their own do they travel any distance free wheeling or stop almost as soon as you let go, they should run quite a distance when pushed, stopping quickly will indicate the wheels are not quite a free as you think.

NGM

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Hauling issues
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2019, 09:48:26 PM »
I'm sorry your introduction to N gauge is not going to plan, Chris :(
I'd suggest you PM Dr Al and ask him to sort your loco(s) but in the meantime suggest you look closely at the bogies of the Lima coaches as, from experience, often the axles pop out of their locating holes in the bogie and they just don't run true. This would mean they'd derail on points but you don't have any at present. They will, however, cause a lot of drag.

 

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