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Author Topic: SNCF Calais-Mediterranée Express - Le Train Bleu  (Read 789 times)

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Offline RailGooner

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SNCF Calais-Mediterranée Express - Le Train Bleu
« on: October 01, 2019, 10:47:27 AM »
 :helpneededsign:

What's wrong with this picture?


Images © Mark Adedeji, on Flickr

Yep, that's right... NO LOCO!

This set is destined to spend most of it's life on display. But I'd like to display a complete train with loco. The question is, what locos would have hauled this train in it's later years ~1980-2003?

The limited literature accompanying the Kato coaches suggests a BR 110. I'm no expert on the SNCF, but that doesn't sound right to me. Wikipedia doesn't suggest anything.

There are quite a few SNCF CC 72000 diesels available on eBay at the moment and a rather attractive BB 67400 - would they do? My gut says 'no', that it'd more likely be an electric loco.

Can any of the forum's continental experts help me please?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2019, 11:48:09 PM by RailGooner, Reason: change image source to flickr »
“We are indebted to those soldiers who served with courage and distinction to bring peace to Northern Ireland,” UK Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson said. “The welfare of our former service personnel is of the utmost importance.”

Per Ardua ad Astra | Mens Agitat Molem | Victoria Concordia Crescit | Utrinque Paratus | Caveat lector

Online weave

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Re: SNCF Calais-Mediterranée Express - Le Train Bleu
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2019, 11:29:06 AM »
Hi Railgooner,

As a start, SNCF CC 7100....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNCF_Class_CC_7100

Made in N gauge by Startrain product number 60129. There is also a del Prado static model if it aint going anywhere.

Will look further into it but pretty sure that that loco would have pulled it from Paris to the South East in earlier days. I thought the 'Blue Train' was just Paris to Nice but if there was a Calais connection it gets more complicated as the overhead wires are AC not DC so different loco and also some non electrified lines.

Have rushed this reply a bit but will try and give you a better explanation. Am sure more knowledgeable peeps will come along.

Cheers weave  :beers:
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 11:31:22 AM by weave »

Offline joe cassidy

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Re: SNCF Calais-Mediterranée Express - Le Train Bleu
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2019, 11:53:16 AM »
I'm looking at a special issue of the French mag "Le Train" (March 2015).

There are photos of the TB behind the following locos :

BB2614 (July 2011)
a BB66000 (middle of the 1960s)
a 141R (July 1955)
231 D 98
6100 PLM Pacific (c.1926)
231 G 211
2 231 E 22 (August 1965)
1 140 G 1874 (April 1948)
2D2 9130 (1953)
a 141 R (1953)
BB25200 (from1965)
BB22200 (July 1983)

The article gives the composition of the trains from 1921 to 2002, including loco changes en route.

Best regards,


Joe

Offline RailGooner

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Re: SNCF Calais-Mediterranée Express - Le Train Bleu
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2019, 12:26:05 PM »
Thanks Weave!

..
Made in N gauge by Startrain product number 60129.  There is also a del Prado static model if it aint going anywhere.
...

I intend to display the train in a Train-Safe Vision unit and give it the odd run, so a powered loco is a must. I've found a CC 7100 by Startrain on eBay and have even found some detailing parts at Trains160, all thanks to your help. I'm not quite ready to click buy yet though - not convinced of the aesthetics of the CC 7100 in green.
 :beers:
“We are indebted to those soldiers who served with courage and distinction to bring peace to Northern Ireland,” UK Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson said. “The welfare of our former service personnel is of the utmost importance.”

Per Ardua ad Astra | Mens Agitat Molem | Victoria Concordia Crescit | Utrinque Paratus | Caveat lector

Online weave

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Re: SNCF Calais-Mediterranée Express - Le Train Bleu
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2019, 12:29:14 PM »
Hi again,

Most of Joe's reply locos are steam but the last two are electric. Arnold used to make the BB 25200 (available on ebay), probably the green version, and Minitrix made and have recently rereleased a BB 22200.

The new one, product number 16005 is 180 euros at DM Toys so maybe go down the del Prado road (£10). They also do a BB9300 'Mistral' loco which presumably could have pulled it as well, being on the same Paris - Cotes d'Azur route.

I'll leave it there as am no expert at all but hope my limited knowledge helped a bit.

Cheers weave  :beers:

Think we crossed there but bit more info.

Offline RailGooner

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Re: SNCF Calais-Mediterranée Express - Le Train Bleu
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2019, 12:52:24 PM »
Thanks Joe!

..
BB22200 (July 1983)
...

I think the BB 22200 series is my best option - I like the aesthetics of the loco and there are modern DCC ready models available. Does your "Le Train" mag show the livery of the 22200?
 :beers:
“We are indebted to those soldiers who served with courage and distinction to bring peace to Northern Ireland,” UK Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson said. “The welfare of our former service personnel is of the utmost importance.”

Per Ardua ad Astra | Mens Agitat Molem | Victoria Concordia Crescit | Utrinque Paratus | Caveat lector

Offline Hiawatha

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Re: SNCF Calais-Mediterranée Express - Le Train Bleu
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2019, 01:09:45 PM »
Very nice set! :thumbsup:

The coaches in these Kato sets all have UIC computer numbers and represent the post-CIWL museum train, so basically you can use every locomotive from your chosen country that would be suitable for pulling a historic train – or any modern locomotive that looks completely out of place. :)

For example … ::)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WihgnwpX-WE&t=440s

I guess when the Orient Express made its 1988 Hong Kong run it was pulled in Germany by a BR 110, that’s why Lemke has included it in the leaflet – and of course Hobbytrain/Lemke also produced the BR 110 …

If you choose to ignore the UIC numbers, here’s the Le Train bleu shown in the 1960s behind a SNCF 2D2 electric but I guess a CC-7100 will also be okay:
http://www.rmb.asso.fr/RMB-composition_IIId-1961-1970_G_LIGNES.pdf
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 01:14:59 PM by Hiawatha »
Peter

Offline RailGooner

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Re: SNCF Calais-Mediterranée Express - Le Train Bleu
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2019, 03:01:44 PM »
Thanks Peter!

The coaches in these Kato sets all have UIC computer numbers and represent the post-CIWL museum train, so basically you can use every locomotive from your chosen country that would be suitable for pulling a historic train – or any modern locomotive that looks completely out of place. :)
...

Very interesting and very liberating news! Perhaps I'll pair them with 'Sir Nigel Gresley' while waiting for the right SNCF loco (i.e. any one I like the look of) to come my way.
 :beers:
“We are indebted to those soldiers who served with courage and distinction to bring peace to Northern Ireland,” UK Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson said. “The welfare of our former service personnel is of the utmost importance.”

Per Ardua ad Astra | Mens Agitat Molem | Victoria Concordia Crescit | Utrinque Paratus | Caveat lector

Offline Globibahn

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Re: SNCF Calais-Mediterranée Express - Le Train Bleu
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2019, 06:44:48 PM »
Very nice set! :thumbsup:

The coaches in these Kato sets all have UIC computer numbers and represent the post-CIWL museum train, so basically you can use every locomotive from your chosen country that would be suitable for pulling a historic train – or any modern locomotive that looks completely out of place. :)

For example … ::)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WihgnwpX-WE&t=440s


Ahh..... there is nothing like the historic glamour, elegance and je ne sais quoi of erm..... a BR120! :laughabovepost:

Offline Globibahn

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Re: SNCF Calais-Mediterranée Express - Le Train Bleu
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2019, 06:47:52 PM »
Brilliant graphics here. If I had lived in the era I would difinitely hop aboard and enjoy a Martini on my way to the south of France!



Offline RailGooner

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Re: SNCF Calais-Mediterranée Express - Le Train Bleu
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2019, 07:21:22 PM »
Only one(!)? :pint:
“We are indebted to those soldiers who served with courage and distinction to bring peace to Northern Ireland,” UK Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson said. “The welfare of our former service personnel is of the utmost importance.”

Per Ardua ad Astra | Mens Agitat Molem | Victoria Concordia Crescit | Utrinque Paratus | Caveat lector

Offline Delfin

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Re: SNCF Calais-Mediterranée Express - Le Train Bleu
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2019, 08:52:07 PM »
The current (October 2019) Loco-Revue magazine has an article on the Train Bleu. It says that during the 50's a 2D2 9100 1.5kV DC electric class loco was used between Paris and Lyon, then a 231G steam locomotive until Marseille and then a 141R (oil fired version) from there to Vintimille. 

Unfortunately the article is mainly about HO scale reproductions of the coaching stock and no further information is given about the locomotives except that in 1977, the centenary of the CIWL, a 231E Pacific was used.

I'm not sure that these locomotives are available in N scale, although a very expensive limited edition version of the 141R was available in recent years.

Needless to say, the advent of cheap air travel and the TGV did away with this fine train.

Sandy

Offline RailGooner

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Re: SNCF Calais-Mediterranée Express - Le Train Bleu
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2019, 10:30:13 PM »
Thanks Sandy. Any day now, the postie will be bringing me a parcel - photos to follow.
 :beers:
“We are indebted to those soldiers who served with courage and distinction to bring peace to Northern Ireland,” UK Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson said. “The welfare of our former service personnel is of the utmost importance.”

Per Ardua ad Astra | Mens Agitat Molem | Victoria Concordia Crescit | Utrinque Paratus | Caveat lector

Offline RailGooner

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Re: SNCF Calais-Mediterranée Express - Le Train Bleu
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2019, 06:54:27 PM »
Kato suggested a BR 110, so I bought a BR 110! In DB blue!


Images © Mark Adedeji, on Flickr
« Last Edit: November 23, 2019, 11:49:27 PM by RailGooner, Reason: change image source to flickr »
“We are indebted to those soldiers who served with courage and distinction to bring peace to Northern Ireland,” UK Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson said. “The welfare of our former service personnel is of the utmost importance.”

Per Ardua ad Astra | Mens Agitat Molem | Victoria Concordia Crescit | Utrinque Paratus | Caveat lector

Offline Hiawatha

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Re: SNCF Calais-Mediterranée Express - Le Train Bleu
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2019, 10:30:28 PM »
The seven coaches from your set are exactly the same as included in the 15-car “Nostalgie Orient Express Paris–Hong Kong 1988” set K23215 (two sets, K10-1230/1231, in Japan). Unsold 15-car sets were later split and repackaged into the three sets K23217 (“Le Train bleu”, 7 cars), -18 (“Riviera Express”, 4 cars) and -19 (“Pullman Orient Express”, 5 cars).
So, if you want, you could still add the other two sets to your Train bleu to make up the complete 15-car Hong Kong train (with the Pullman Dining car 4158 being the only duplicate in the three sets). The only car not available from Kato is the leading green/grey SNCF baggage car (maybe REE makes something similar?).




from: http://www.produkte24.com/cy/bahnorama-6671/lemke-kato-hobbytrain-neuheiten-2016-65023/seite-9.html

Lemke offered the Startrain 60127 CC-7102 with these sets, repackaged as Hobbytrain H2930 with the unchanged locomotive but with photoetched “Pullman Orient Express” name boards included as shown in the catalogue photo.

The Paris–Hong Kong Orient Express was apparently pulled in West Germany by a blue BR 110 (with rumours of a 181.2 too) but strangely I couldn’t find a single photo of this to verify the loco number or at least the 110 body type.
The East Germans were more enthusiastic, and in the GDR the train was double-headed by pacifics 01 137 and 01 (1)531.


Here’s a Japanese video about the 1988 journey which shows the French and East German steam locos but not the DB locomotive.
 
Most but not all of the Paris–Hong Kong coaches were then shipped to Japan. Kato also made this train, in the two sets K10-561/562 (7 + 6 cars), which include two Japanese adapter coaches. These Japanese sets preceded the 15-car European set(s), and the coaches differ from the later production as they have different bogies for the Japanese gauge.

Peter

 

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