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Author Topic: 40 Ton LMS bogie brake van.  (Read 1142 times)

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Offline emjaybee

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40 Ton LMS bogie brake van.
« on: May 21, 2019, 11:48:57 PM »
A while back whilst looking something up on Google I stumbled across a picture of the 40 ton LMS bogie brake van. It was not something I was aware of up until that point.




(Photograph from 'An Illustrated History of LMS Wagons by R.J.Essery, Volume 1 - Photograph by British Rail)

A short conversation was had about it on this forum, there were only three built and they worked around the Copley Hill to Armley line.

And then PaulPrice said to me "so when are you going to build one?", and it got me thinking.

Initially I dismissed the idea, but they are such a fantastic looking vehicle, and I don't consider myself a great modeller. Until I realised they share a lot of similarities to the LMS 20 ton brake van, from cabin dimensions, to veranda details etc. It occurred to me that it may be possible to produce a passable version (rivet counters may want to look away) without a major paint job, which I think is my weakness.

There followed a period of book buying guided by suggestions from other forum members and some 'estimating', and some online research which was pretty fruitless. Thank heavens for the thoroughness of R.J.Essery.



I managed to get three 20 ton brake vans, from two different sources, for under £30.

I removed the side steps, chassis, and internal cabin detail. Unfortunately the roof is moulded to the rest of the van, I had hoped it would be removeable.

One van was cut in half, and the veranda side windows cut out from the half shells. As the end result will be made from three bits I decided to 'step' the roof joint to hopefully give it a bit more strength, I also plan to glue some reinforcing across the joints where possible. The side lettering was carefully scraped off at this point.



The ends were removed from one other van to produce the middle section, again with a stepped roofline. The roof detail was removed from all three sections. Unless I can come up with some whizzy solution I'm afraid the guard is just going to have to put up with rain down the back of his neck.



The three bits are now married together after what seemed an age of filing and fitting.



There's been a lot of peering at my Peco N scale rule, and I reckon my version body is about 1" to 2" (scale inches!) longer than the prototype.

Once I've reinforced the roof joints and filled and sanded the roof I plan on replacing the chimney before painting the roof. If anyones got any ideas on forming rain mouldings I'd loved to hear from you.

That's it for a while.  I've got to cut and shut the two chassis from the base vans next. I've got some plateback bogies on order from the NGS, I've no knowledge of bogies in general, but these seem to look the most similar to prototype whilst being the correct wheelbase and wheel size.

 :wave:


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Offline PLD

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Re: 40 Ton LMS bogie brake van.
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2019, 12:18:24 AM »
If anyones got any ideas on forming rain mouldings I'd loved to hear from you.
A thin strand of wire is the easiest option - a single strand from standard 7x0.2 will suffice.

Score a groove into the roof first to the right curvature then lay in the wire and flow liquid polystyrene cement along the length.

Offline broadsword

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Re: 40 Ton LMS bogie brake van.
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2019, 09:14:04 AM »
Nice work, didn't know this vehicle existed, thought the SR Queen Mary was the only bogie brake.

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: 40 Ton LMS bogie brake van.
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2019, 09:43:10 AM »
Most unusual, and a really good representation.

Online Dr Al

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Re: 40 Ton LMS bogie brake van.
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2019, 09:57:37 AM »
If anyones got any ideas on forming rain mouldings I'd loved to hear from you.

N Brass sell beading wire (is basically half circular cross section wire) which would be perfect for this.

Part is 23283:

https://www.nbrasslocos.co.uk/fitbr.html

Cheers,
Alan
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If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

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Offline Bealman

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Re: 40 Ton LMS bogie brake van.
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2019, 10:05:32 AM »
Nice work, didn't know this vehicle existed, thought the SR Queen Mary was the only bogie brake.

Me too, though I was aware of the late Mr Essery's excellent publications on the LMS.

Looking forward to the finished model!
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline Bob G

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Re: 40 Ton LMS bogie brake van.
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2019, 11:26:48 AM »
Nice body.
What are you doing about the chassis?

(could apply to so many different conversations...)

Offline emjaybee

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Re: 40 Ton LMS bogie brake van.
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2019, 11:54:28 AM »
If anyones got any ideas on forming rain mouldings I'd loved to hear from you.

N Brass sell beading wire (is basically half circular cross section wire) which would be perfect for this.

Part is 23283:

https://www.nbrasslocos.co.uk/fitbr.html

Cheers,
Alan

That's helpful, what adhesive would you suggest?

Nice body.
What are you doing about the chassis?

(could apply to so many different conversations...)

Oo-err missus!

You must have missed it. The plan is to cut and shut the two original chassis from the donor vans. They have the solebar detail and should serve my purposes well, I've got the donor side steps which I plan to re-use to finish off.

I'm very much in the dark as to how to actually mount the bogies when they arrive. Pointers on that subject would also be welcome! Currently I'm thinking something along the lines of Heath and Robinson.

 :-X
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 11:55:48 AM by emjaybee »
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Offline zwilnik

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Re: 40 Ton LMS bogie brake van.
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2019, 12:02:09 PM »
I've used cotton before to do piping/beading etc. glued to the flat surface it's about the right thickness once painted and relatively easy to shape. (can even use card templates to help shape it)

Offline Bealman

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Re: 40 Ton LMS bogie brake van.
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2019, 12:17:59 PM »
Best of luck with that, but you've made a great start, and I know it's going to end up just fine.

Better than that..... it'll be awesome.  :beers:
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 12:19:04 PM by Bealman »
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline Bob G

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Re: 40 Ton LMS bogie brake van.
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2019, 12:36:37 PM »
Sorry - I meant to ask what are you doing about the bogies, but I guess a hankie would be the polite answer :)

I was trying to see if the running boards were on the chassis or bogies, and I see they are on both the bogies and chassis. Complicated or what!

Bob

Offline emjaybee

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Re: 40 Ton LMS bogie brake van.
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2019, 12:40:01 PM »
Sorry - I meant to ask what are you doing about the bogies, but I guess a hankie would be the polite answer :)

I was trying to see if the running boards were on the chassis or bogies, and I see they are on both the bogies and chassis. Complicated or what!

Bob

The running boards should be relatively easy. The ones I removed from the donor vans have brackets and the short end steps, the bogie ones I'll just trim and stick to the sides of the bogie.
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...sometimes the dog bites you!

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Online RailGooner

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Re: 40 Ton LMS bogie brake van.
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2019, 02:25:08 PM »
What an interesting, obscure, and attractive prototype. The model is shaping up to be equally attractive! :thumbsup:
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Online Dr Al

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Re: 40 Ton LMS bogie brake van.
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2019, 11:35:12 PM »
That's helpful, what adhesive would you suggest?

Probably cyano is the way to go. Worth roughening the brass wire (a rub over the length with a fibre tipped pencil will do this).

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.”Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline emjaybee

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PART 2: 40 Ton LMS bogie brake van.
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2019, 04:44:52 PM »
This is the final installment, I promise.

The two donor chassis were trimmed to size and then filed to get as near perfect fit as possible. The three-piece roof was filled ready for sanding back.



The two parts were then clipped onto the body. Because of the way I’ve cut and shut the donor vehicles, the top still clips onto the chassis using the original clips.



The original underchassis plate from the donor vans with the brake gear on has been roughly trimmed to size for use later.



The NGS plate back bogies were assembled. They took a bit of fettling to get the wheelsets, from Dundas, to run freely, and the NGS couplings, despite my efforts do not lift and drop freely, but I’m at a loss as to how to get them any better.



For anyone who followed the other discussion I started about NGS bogies, I elected to have a crack at making my own bogie mounts. I used the bogie mount from the NGS Warwell kit as a ‘template’. The base is plasticard, the spigot is 4mm styrene tube. The small ‘spokes’ are thin rod glued to the base. These are necessary to stop the top of the bogie rubbing on the base, in effect they are a bearing surface. The brown ones were the first attempt, but didn’t lift the solebar clear of the bogie sides, so the grey rods were fitted which give just enough clearance between the solebar and the top of the bogie. The styrene rod was from a Slaters assortment pack.
Bogie retainers were made from plasticard and 2.5mm styrene rod.





The bogie mounts were glued to the chassis along with a further trimmed brake detail. I suspect the detail isn’t correct, but it’ll do for me, just gives a bit of something under the chassis. The under floor was then given a coat of black acrylic. As a point of interest, the Farish underfloor brake gear actually pivots freely in the ‘V’ hangars once the ends are disconnected.



Once the paint was dry, the chassis was carefully removed from the body, a reinforcing piece of plasticard was glued across the top of the joint and the small metal weights from the two donor vehicles were superglued to the top to add some weight. This little pile was also painted black so it shouldn’t be visible once assembled.



After sanding back the filler, the only work left on the body was the roof detail which I’d been dreading. Following @PLD ‘s suggestion I decided on the wire method. I found a polythene supplement lid with a suitable radius and then trimmed it to produce a locatable and repeatable template. The opposite edge of the lid was trimmed so that it could be held/wedged against the body to stop it shifting. I used a ‘panel scribing’ tool, which I bought 30+ years ago (first time I’ve used it – I knew it would come in handy eventually!). The tool actually removes a thin strip of plastic. Strands of copper wire were trimmed, formed and glued into place with thin liquid poly.
Lastly, the chimney was made from some more plastic rodding and glued into place.







The body went off to the paint shop, where I masked off everything below the roof. Two light coats of primer, two light coats of Tempest Grey, followed by a coat of satin lacquer.



The running boards were always going to be tricky, so I started by cutting and fixing the ones attached to the solebar so I’d got a level for the bogie mounted ones. Running boards for the bogies were cut from the surplus donor running boards and glued at the appropriate level to the side of the bogies. They’re not stunningly good, but without zooming in on a digital photo you’d be hard pressed to tell. I did find I had to nick the back corner off the ends of the fixed running boards to enable the chassis to navigate tight radii.





Only some small details left to do, cabin ends and pipework.



The end panels for the cabin were glued back into their rightful place, and the pipework into the original location on the ends.



Finally, with a bit of a fiddle the chassis and body were reunited (and a small step glued back on – again!).



For comparison purposes, here's the 40T bogie brake with a donor van and a Peco van.



I apologise to the rivet-counters and perfectionists, it has the wrong vehicle number, I may rectify this in the future by overlaying white and black blanking decals followed by the correct number. It also has two 'plates' each side, but it'll have to live with that for the time being.

The original plan was to try to make a passable representation of a 40T LMS bogie brake without doing a major repaint. I'm pretty chuffed with the end result, it's not perfect but I don't think it's too bad. I am really pleased with the roof, that came out far better than I anticipated.

I hope I haven't bored the heck out of everyone, thanks for reading.

 :wave:








Sometimes you bite the dog...

...sometimes the dog bites you!

----------------------------------------------------------

I can explain it to you...

...but I can't understand it for you.

 

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